Hans-Dieter Flick

[Windhook]

It's not the end of the world, but this week games are wake up call. Flick has to re-adjust tactics. It seems every team knows how to neutralize Barca's strengths.

Last season with healthy Lamine and Raphinha we were a force and in the end teams exploited our weakest point with Martin at LB. Now it's locking down Pedri and the whole team is rendered shit.

 

[jamrock]

Another clueless dude about football

Bayern wasn't an one-off, the season after (20/21) were again absolutely dominant, and dominated PSG in Paris, got out because they lost a shittone of chances

Let alone that he was never sacked, he left on his own to take over GErmany, while Bayern hierarch were pressuring him to stay

How did the high line and press work out for him for with Germany though?.

The only truly competitive space we've seen this work was last season imo.

Bayern in Germany they win 99% of the time no matter who is the coach.

Still averaged 38 goals conceded in the league, with 4 less games.

The CL was a covid year with an asterisk.

Germany all things were equal and he failed

Let's see what happen this season, this will be confirmation of his system works and is sustainable.

 

[Horatio]

what prevents them from pressing and running?

We were missing 3 players with pace. Raphinha, Lamine and Balde.

Olmo is walking dead now.

 

[Birdy]

Thin squad and injuries
Plus always harder defending a league title

The ones that are not injured?

Surely it's not fatigue.

Then the reason is prob attitude/mentality and has nothing to do with physical demands

 

[serghei]

Another ridiculous take.

Season just started.

Players did not play any summer competition.

what prevents them from pressing and running?

Listen, you have to be about more than running and pressing as a team. Every other team combines different ways of playing to allow players to perform consistently.

It is simply not feasible to be as Flick wants. Why are you so sure it is complacency.

We had a massive drop last season as well in his 1st season?

 

[Birdy]

We were missing 3 players with pace. Raphinha, Lamine and Balde.

Olmo is walking dead now.

Balde came on, and Lamine is not as intense in defending.

It's not personnel related.

WIth the exception of PEdri-Frenkie and maybe Ferran, the others are not putting the effort needed regardless of their talent

 

[Porque]

That's probably due to fatigue. When you're presses you need constant movement. If you move constantly off the ball to get out of pressure, and off the ball you're required to press... this is extremely taxing.

You remember the 90s where the 4231 fell out of fashion because it divided the team into two phases. As football become more physical a more balanced 433 took over for a bit.

The offensive team and the defensive team, with the pivots and the front 4 being separated.

That's what we're seeing right now. The system this week has broken. Fullbacks closed off from the attack, pivots unable to move forward being marked, then the offensive guys staying up and hardly tracking.

It's systematic more than just high line and pressing.

Flick has to figure this out quickly.

 

[Birdy]

How did the high line and press work out for him for with Germany though?.

The only truly competitive space we've seen this work was last season imo.

Bayern in Germany they win 99% of the time no matter who is the coach.

Still averaged 38 goals conceded in the league, with 4 less games.

The CL was a covid year with an asterisk.

Germany all things were equal and he failed

Let's see what happen this season, this will be confirmation of his system works and is sustainable.

has been answered so many times.
Flick is not an NT coach, but club coach

Covid season is BS. Bayern were tearing apart every team that season in as many legs as you want

 

[khaled_a_d]

Issue is his pressing is of the wild type. I haven't seen any team to implement his pressing consistently. Bayern were also a one off. Got sacked IIRC after a decline in 2nd season.

What are the odds his pressing demands are unreasonable to begin with?

He left Bayern, because board didn't meet his demands. NT was his dream job as he was long time Löw assistant.

Pressing is the one of the main characteristics of modern football, while one of the most unsustainable either.

Pep uses it, and it was always ugly when it failed, Klopp usually had his teams taking season off from it, not just games.

One team that barely implemented it and succeeded is R.Madrid.
But they are historically the kings of pragmatic fundamental football.

Flick has massive flaw in being so dependent on pressing. This is who he is, and likely why no one (including himself) is expecting him to last more than 3 seasons here.


But while the discussion about sustainability is fair, the discussion about depth is equally important.

Flick is doing it with a team that lacks any depth, with many bench players who are trash, with many kids or older players, and he has fairly overachieved. And with a clown group of defenders in a club that ideologically doesn't care about signing defenders.

In that way, I would say "unhuman pressing" is his best bet, to cover for this shit defense. You defend by attackers and midfield for the most part.

 

[jamrock]

Dude the ONLY attacking sub we had was Roony and he came on

Ferran had to be taken off too, was fucking horrible

Let's say your right, he could have come in for lewa and pushed Torres to CF.

Could have come on for olmo

Etc

Not about the subs, how they were used.

 

[MagIX]

Yes, at the moment we're not in a good spell, and on top of that we've had some key injuries right now. It happens. Better now in October than later. There's time to get back on track. Full confidence in the coach.

 

[Birdy]

Listen, you have to be about more than running and pressing as a team. Every other team combines different ways of playing to allow players to perform consistently.

It is simply not feasible to be as Flick wants. Why are you so sure it is complacency.

We had a massive drop last season as well in his 1st season?

Running and pressing are preconditions of the high line.

I am sure it's complacency because there is no fatigue (no summer tounrament, season just started), and because we all saw how it can work last season when players play intensely

 

[malvolio]

The reason is shite players.

Olmo, Ferran, Lewandowski, even Trashford if he is marked. Defense had only Kounde and even he is terrible lately.

Not to mention calls in here of best midfield in the world etc.

The corpse of Inter Milan put 7 past us but we still talking about luck. PSG with kids schooled us.

 

[serghei]

He left Bayern, because board didn't meet his demands. NT was his dream job as he was long time Löw assistant.

Pressing is the one of the main characteristics of modern football, while one of the most unsustainable either.

Pep uses it, and it was always ugly when it failed, Klopp usually had his teams taking season off from it.

One team that barely implemented it and succeeded is R.Madrid.
But they are historically the kings of pragmatic fundamental football.

Flick has massive flaw in being so dependent on pressing. This is who he is, and likely why no one (including himself) is expecting him to last more than 3 seasons here.


But while the discussion about sustainability is fair, the discussion about depth is equally important.

Flick is doing it with a team that lacks any depth, with many bench players who are trash, with many kids or older players, and he has fairly overachieved. And with a clown group of defenders in a club that ideologically doesn't care about signing defenders.

In that way, I would say "unhuman pressing" is his best bet, to cover for this shit defense. You defend by attackers and midfield for the most part.

I don't want him to change a lot. It's some adjustments he needs to make. I'm not saying abandon pressing and going back to pragmatic football like 2022-23.

Adjustments can be made. High line can be addressed. I have never seen another team with such a high line like Flick.

Imo he's pushing good things to the extreme, unlike other managers.

 

[Birdy]

I don't want him to change a lot. It's some adjustments he needs to make. I'm not saying abandon pressing and going back to pragmatic football like 2022-23.

No you want him to change completely.

I have told you so many times, and you don't seem to get it.

Coaches do not change their philosophy when results go south.

Especially WC coaches that have won it all