Iniesta Ultra
Senior Member
Your talent id is poor then. I would love to have Diallo, Zirks, and Yoro at Barca.
Antony
- Thread starter EdmondDantes
- Start date
Maradona37
Well-known member
My talent ID is poor for not rating Zirkzee? Come on lad. For me, he flatters to deceive with a few nice touches in the middle of the park. He's a 5 a side player. What has he done there or in his career to justify mocking anyone who doesn't rate him?
I actually do rate Diallo in terms of ability (though they have hyped him up as a superstar when he's done nothing in the game really) and Yoro looks a good young talent, so I don't even disagree on those two.
But most of the rest of them are average at best and will never get anywhere close to competing seriously for the trophies they think they should be contesting for (PL and CL). It's not all down to Amorim, and it isn't all down to the players - anyone sensible will say it's a mixture of both Amorim not performing well as a coach and the players not being that good in general.
I actually do rate Diallo in terms of ability (though they have hyped him up as a superstar when he's done nothing in the game really) and Yoro looks a good young talent, so I don't even disagree on those two.
But most of the rest of them are average at best and will never get anywhere close to competing seriously for the trophies they think they should be contesting for (PL and CL). It's not all down to Amorim, and it isn't all down to the players - anyone sensible will say it's a mixture of both Amorim not performing well as a coach and the players not being that good in general.
Maradona37
Well-known member
Anyway mate, I think you're a good poster, I like reading what you have to contribute, we just differ in how much we rate their squad. It is no biggie.
Iniesta Ultra
Senior Member
Collectively Nottingham Forest doesn't have better players than United. Your United hate is distorting your perception.
Newcastle were almost relegated when Howe took over with shit players and brought them to midtable and now CL spot. Look what Flick did one trick donkey, rags, and ferret albeit with gimmicky lower IQ tactics.
There's a lot of homo erotic whitewashing going for Hamorim.
Newcastle were almost relegated when Howe took over with shit players and brought them to midtable and now CL spot. Look what Flick did one trick donkey, rags, and ferret albeit with gimmicky lower IQ tactics.
There's a lot of homo erotic whitewashing going for Hamorim.
Maradona37
Well-known member
But Forest have five or six players who could start for United, I feel. Now if you wanna argue those players would turn to rubbish if United signed them, that is very possible. But we can only judge how they are doing now.
Sels, Aina, Murillo, Anderson, Gibbs-White, Wood, Elanga as a few (he's been better since he left them so guess he could) could/would all start for United.
The United squad is composed of players who have failed through several managers and who have been discarded by other big clubs. Could it be that maybe you think they're better than they are because they play for Man United, but if these same players were wearing an Ipswich shirt you likely wouldn't rate them as much?
It's just way too simplistic to blame Amorim for everything. Do you honestly think they'd get anywhere near the top 6 with a better coach? I know they did in previous seasons but they were vastly outperforming their metrics (as admittedly Forest are now).
I don't know who you are referring to by rags and donkey, but Torres hasn't even been great from what I have seen - he's stepped up well since Lewy has been out but he's far from a long-term answer.
I also agree with you that Amorim isn't gonna do well there (I said when he first came he'd be sacked within two years, as I said in summer 2023 that Ten Hag would be sacked by 2025) and I stand by that. He's stubborn and dogmatic. But I still think the players are nowhere near good enough to get to top 6 level and deserve it based on performances. No matters who coaches them.
The biggest flaw these players have is they're mostly woeful when pressured. Look at Athletic even - they won't that game 4-1 but for the first 70 minutes Bilbao passed around them like they didn't exist. West Ham did the same at the weekend.
I can't prove I am right and neither can you, but we differ on the extent of it. You seem to think they could be a top team with a better coach, and I vehemently disagree. Neither of us can say we are right, but given how the last 12 years have gone, the evidence is much more in my favour.
Sels, Aina, Murillo, Anderson, Gibbs-White, Wood, Elanga as a few (he's been better since he left them so guess he could) could/would all start for United.
The United squad is composed of players who have failed through several managers and who have been discarded by other big clubs. Could it be that maybe you think they're better than they are because they play for Man United, but if these same players were wearing an Ipswich shirt you likely wouldn't rate them as much?
It's just way too simplistic to blame Amorim for everything. Do you honestly think they'd get anywhere near the top 6 with a better coach? I know they did in previous seasons but they were vastly outperforming their metrics (as admittedly Forest are now).
I don't know who you are referring to by rags and donkey, but Torres hasn't even been great from what I have seen - he's stepped up well since Lewy has been out but he's far from a long-term answer.
I also agree with you that Amorim isn't gonna do well there (I said when he first came he'd be sacked within two years, as I said in summer 2023 that Ten Hag would be sacked by 2025) and I stand by that. He's stubborn and dogmatic. But I still think the players are nowhere near good enough to get to top 6 level and deserve it based on performances. No matters who coaches them.
The biggest flaw these players have is they're mostly woeful when pressured. Look at Athletic even - they won't that game 4-1 but for the first 70 minutes Bilbao passed around them like they didn't exist. West Ham did the same at the weekend.
I can't prove I am right and neither can you, but we differ on the extent of it. You seem to think they could be a top team with a better coach, and I vehemently disagree. Neither of us can say we are right, but given how the last 12 years have gone, the evidence is much more in my favour.
Maradona37
Well-known member
But like I say, I am not looking for an argument. You're a good poster.
Iniesta Ultra
Senior Member
Their best players didn't play for United before this season with exception of Diallo who Ten Harag gave a few junk minutes to. Diallo probably wouldn't have been injured this season in training if Hamorim weren't doing mindless run like pigs exercises or punishment trainings immediately after losing matches. Zirks and Cas were almost completely shut out of matches until injuries forced Hamorim to play them.
He also persisted all season with Hol and Garn (close to total trash even Flick wouldn't be able to salvage) while loaning significantly more talented Rash and Antony. Consistently has players in positions they're not comfortable in, musical chairs, and gaslighting everyone in interviews.
He's so bad Xavi would've done slightly better as coach this season. Posting I'm a good poster won't prevent me from calling out BS.
He also persisted all season with Hol and Garn (close to total trash even Flick wouldn't be able to salvage) while loaning significantly more talented Rash and Antony. Consistently has players in positions they're not comfortable in, musical chairs, and gaslighting everyone in interviews.
He's so bad Xavi would've done slightly better as coach this season. Posting I'm a good poster won't prevent me from calling out BS.
Maradona37
Well-known member
I agree he's made matters worse and amplified the problem, on that you are preaching to the choir.
I am just saying they need significantly better players to compete with the Newcastles over a season, never mind the Liverpool, Arsenal and (good season) City's.
Also, I don't think citing Forest is a great argument as they're an outlier anyway and having an anomaly of a season, like United did when Ten Hag finished third. All evidence says Forest will drop like a stone next season, as Ten Hag's United fell away the next season.
Do you disagree?
I am just saying they need significantly better players to compete with the Newcastles over a season, never mind the Liverpool, Arsenal and (good season) City's.
Also, I don't think citing Forest is a great argument as they're an outlier anyway and having an anomaly of a season, like United did when Ten Hag finished third. All evidence says Forest will drop like a stone next season, as Ten Hag's United fell away the next season.
Do you disagree?
Iniesta Ultra
Senior Member
Zirks, Diallo, Cunha, Mateta, Yoro, Kone, De Ligt, Maz, Cas, new keeper with fillers of Bruno, Mainoo, Obi, Mount, Dorgu, etc can easily get top two next season with a good coach without scamming.
Maradona37
Well-known member
Fair enough. We will see what happens.
Iniesta Ultra
Senior Member
If they had Lucho and Vit too they'd win the league.
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