Pep Guardiola

[DonAK]

Fair to say he fucked up last night.

Have to wonder if he missed a trick by not playing either of Aguero or Gabriel Jesus, no matter how meh they are.

City have played with two CDMs, one CDM and no CDM vs Tuchel's Chelsea now without winning. Tuchel seem to have the False 9 with Foden or KDB figured out.

 

[Bobo32]

If he'd have won then it would have been down to his greatness right? He played an XI without two players Rodri/Fernandinho, one of these two have started almost every game this year. Man City have won most games this year, they didn't win this one. Safe to say making this decision at the very least was a tactical mistake.

Edit: Also played Sterling who's in worse form than Dembele was for the last 10 games.

No it's lazy analysis, and we know very little about his thoughts or the basis of his decisions.
A final is a gamble, maybe City didn't play their best game but it could be because of many reasons. What we can say is that Pep didn't out-think Tuchel this time.

I don't like Sterling, but if his strange heel would have resulted in a goal, or if his pass wasn't heroically saved, yes, most people would say Pep was a genius for playing him. I wouldn't, I call him a genius because of the way he makes his teams and his players play over a longer period of time.

If Chelsea and City would play again tomorrow, and odds were even, who would you put your money on?
Or if they play 10 times the next month, or if both Pep and Tuchel stay and they play 10 times in 2 years...

 

[JamDav1982]

Werner started central and pulled into channels any time Chelsea broke and Havertz or Pulisic went into the space he vacated centrally.

The City CBs and Full backs never dealt with it at all.

Both Stones and Dias were all over the shop and couldnt seem to cover Werners runs from middle to out or pick up Havertz/Pulisic when pulled in centrally.

City going behind just meant Chelsea would sit in all game after that and they didnt have the quality of balls into box or a target for it. Often KDB pulls out wide right to start firing in but his injury stopped that although he was fucking terrible before it.

Pep will go all out for a proper left back and a CF with presence in box surely now.. Kane and one other.

Game of small margins though.. if City go ahead with one of their chances in first half the whole dynamic changes and as Chelsea have shown in league and FA Cup they are not great at breaking down teams that sit in a bit.

City looked out of ideas in that last half an hour.

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

Why do you think Pep's way is outdated?

I did not say he is outdated at all. All I am saying is he needs to add elements to his system so he can have more solutions against different systems.

The only thing that is specifically outdated about him is how he handles offensive transitions because he would rather have gradual control and goal scoring chances throughout a match. This is all he needs to specifically rethink a bit and that stems from learning what teams/systems to open matches up in and when his usual control-based approach is appropriate.

Man needs a 2-5% tweak, not like Mourinho who is still stuck in 2014.

 

[Rory]

No it's lazy analysis, and we know very little about his thoughts or the basis of his decisions.
A final is a gamble, maybe City didn't play their best game but it could be because of many reasons. What we can say is that Pep didn't out-think Tuchel this time.

I don't like Sterling, but if his strange heel would have resulted in a goal, or if his pass wasn't heroically saved, yes, most people would say Pep was a genius for playing him. I wouldn't, I call him a genius because of the way he makes his teams and his players play over a longer period of time.

If Chelsea and City would play again tomorrow, and odds were even, who would you put your money on?
Or if they play 10 times the next month, or if both Pep and Tuchel stay and they play 10 times in 2 years...

It's only lazy in that it's a few words/sentences long. Writing paragraphs on each detail doesn't make a point better or more correct. He made a mistake not playing one of Fernandinho/Rodri. Whether that decided the match is not my point. The match was a lot more than just one or two players starting / not starting. Simply saying it was a mistake. One which he basically admitted by bringing Fernandinho on for a more attacking player (Silva). A manager can only ever have a certain level of impact on a game, the players have to perform. City players didn't perform well either. It's all of their fault for not winning, that includes Pep.

 

[Bobo32]

It's only lazy in that it's a few words/sentences long. Writing paragraphs on each detail doesn't make a point better or more correct. He made a mistake not playing one of Fernandinho/Rodri. Whether that decided the match is not my point. The match was a lot more than just one or two players starting / not starting. Simply saying it was a mistake. One which he basically admitted by bringing Fernandinho on for a more attacking player (Silva). A manager can only ever have a certain level of impact on a game, the players have to perform. City players didn't perform well either. It's all of their fault for not winning, that includes Pep.

No it's not about the length of the argument, it's that it's impossible to say.
There are a million different things he could've done, that maybe would be better than what he did.

We got a game that was roughly equal between two teams that have played roughly equally in the last months. Pep made one big change compared to his usual setup and lost marginally, it's impossible to say if it was because of that change or if it was a mistake or not. Well it's very easy to say or to believe, but it's impossible to know.
I didn't see Chelsea using that area of the pitch very succesfully or that Fernardinho would have changed a lot. I thought they would've needed even more of a good passer in that position, maybe Jorginho or Busquets as pivote would've made a difference...

Fernardinho arrived late in a very different stage of the game, subbing him in wasn't admitting that the starting eleven was wrong.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Baffles me how we've not had one high profile manager since Pep left.

We never hired a high profile manager since LVG (both tenures)
We simply don't do that here.

In addition, I think we were the least attractive big club post Pep era. Look at Lucho, treble winning coach and yet very few give him credit and the only big club approached him was Chelsea, but wanted him to come without giving him any power.
EV won two league titles and he was called our worst coach ever by fans. Everything won is credited to Messi, every manager compared to Pep and if you don't meet that comparison you get called out.

Why a big manager would come here to be scapegoat for not playing and winning like Pep did?

 

[jairzinho]

Obvious that Pep got carried away with the lineup. A more pragmatic approach would have been better. Finals are one off 50-50 matches, there's no 2nd leg to attempt a comeback.

 

[Rory]

No it's not about the length of the argument, it's that it's impossible to say.
There are a million different things he could've done, that maybe would be better than what he did.

We got a game that was roughly equal between two teams that have played roughly equally in the last months. Pep made one big change compared to his usual setup and lost marginally, it's impossible to say if it was because of that change or if it was a mistake or not. Well it's very easy to say or to believe, but it's impossible to know.
I didn't see Chelsea using that area of the pitch very succesfully or that Fernardinho would have changed a lot. I thought they would've needed even more of a good passer in that position, maybe Jorginho or Busquets as pivote would've made a difference...

Fernardinho arrived late in a very different stage of the game, subbing him in wasn't admitting that the starting eleven was wrong.

Pep made some team selection mistakes, everyone could see that from the off, pundits seemed to think so too. Chelsea had a handful of good chances, created far more in both halves. Scoreline was generous to City. Werner having worse finishing than Dembele made sure it was a marginal loss. Pulisic with his miss too.

If he can't be criticised for strange decisions in a UCL final, one where City created no clear chances then he doesn't deserve the applause when they do win things.

 

[Bobo32]

Pep made some team selection mistakes, everyone could see that from the off, pundits seemed to think so too. Chelsea had a handful of good chances, created far more in both halves. Scoreline was generous to City. Werner having worse finishing than Dembele made sure it was a marginal loss. Pulisic with his miss too.

If he can't be criticised for strange decisions in a UCL final, one where City created no clear chances then he doesn't deserve the applause when they do win things.

He can be criticised and maybe he should be.
Pundits and users like you here take the easy route, it's easy and simple and maybe it will become the "truth". In reality I don't think it's that simple.
City was very close to score multiple times both before and after the goal, their crosses only just not reaching their targets.
Yesterdays game could have easily gone the other way with the first goal from City, letting them cruise to a simple victory after.

 

[soul24rage]

Just come home Pep.

Our team would be much better managed by you.

 

[serghei]

I did not say he is outdated at all. All I am saying is he needs to add elements to his system so he can have more solutions against different systems.

The only thing that is specifically outdated about him is how he handles offensive transitions because he would rather have gradual control and goal scoring chances throughout a match. This is all he needs to specifically rethink a bit and that stems from learning what teams/systems to open matches up in and when his usual control-based approach is appropriate.

Man needs a 2-5% tweak, not like Mourinho who is still stuck in 2014.

I agree with this.

Pep is basically getting beaten by high-class managers that he inspired. I think he will even lose vs another one of his disciples, namely Nagelsmann, soon if he continues like this. He puts himself into a corner by pretending that his total-football style is effective, in the way it was originally designed in 2009-11 when you take all-time greats like Xavi, Messi, Iniesta, Alves, Busquets from the system. You can't. Those players epitomized total football as much as Pep, it was a seamless direction from top to bottom. These City alternates can never dream of getting close to that level of dominance in positional attacks. It's night and day really.

I don't understand why he played like this in the final, when vs PSG he played differently, with more counters, quicker transitions, lower defensive block and more compactness everywhere. It's like he underestimated Chelsea and thought they are gonna be this team that he could bully into a corner.

 

[KingLeo10]

I agree with this.

Pep is basically getting beaten by high-class managers that he inspired. I think he will even lose vs another one of his disciples, namely Nagelsmann, soon if he continues like this. He puts himself into a corner by pretending that his total-football style is effective when you take all-time greats like Xavi, Messi, Iniesta, Alves, Busquets from the system. You can't. Those players epithomised total-football as much as Pep. These City alternates can never dream of getting close to that.

I don't understand why he played like this in the final, when vs PSG he played differently, with more counters, quicker transitions, lower defensive block and more compactness everywhere. It's like he underestimated Chelsea and thought they are gonna be this team that he could bully into a corner.

Position for position, wouldn't take a single player from the City side yesterday ahead of our CL winning XI in 08-09 and 10-11.

And Pep should know this before anyone else

 

[serghei]

Position for position, wouldn't take a single player from the City side yesterday ahead of our CL winning XI in 08-09 and 10-11.

And Pep should know this before anyone else

Not one. I think I'd rather have some Barca squad players in City's First 11 though. About 2-3. Keita for sure. Marquez as well.

 

[Rassvet]

Position for position, wouldn't take a single player from the City side yesterday ahead of our CL winning XI in 08-09 and 10-11.

And Pep should know this before anyone else

Ederson and Dias would walk in imo but Id agree on the rest