Xavi Hernández

[FlaFCB]

How do you know I wasn't waching Xavi back then? Do I have to remember every injury a player has had to prove something to you? Think not. I'm allowed to forget things that happened a decade ago, especially considering I wasn't following Barcelona as closely as now (still watched Xavi), forums like this didn't exist, internet was not everywhere in my country and so on.

Madrid finished 4th in 2004. But won the Champions League in 2000 and 2002 as well. In 2003 played a Champions League semifinal against Juventus and were La Liga champions. They had much more success than us during the early 00's.

Yes, Xavi won the title in 2005, 2006 and at 25-26 years old he started to appear in the NT as well. It's only normal. The original comment was about Xavi being Gomes' age. Which is 22-23. Not 25-26.

I know because of the nonsense you're saying about him. It's pretty clear you didn't watch 23 year old Xavi, during the 03-04 season, or 24 year old Xavi, during the 04-05 season. Rijkaard's era. Likely you started to closely follow Barça during Pep's days.
It really shows when one have no clue about what they're talking. You might have watched Barça once in a blue moon, but you clearly weren't paying attention to Xavi, and now you're pretending you did.

And yes, I will repeat myself, Xavi at 23 years old was infinitely better than Gomes is now. Xavi was already a established starter, and already a consistent world class player. Something Gomes is far from being. Which is not a crime, I actually agree with you in regard to people being wrong in trying to use Xavi as benchmark for any player. It's really unfair, and not a good way to measure a player. Gomes can still be pretty good, but he'll need time.

 

[serghei]

I'm starting to think Sergei is young, I mean so young he missed even the rijkaard era, Because some of the things he is saying about xavi can only be explained that way.

Xavi was a top class players before pep, pep came and turned him into a god, because pep philosophy on football suited xavi perfectly. But because pep elevated xaviC's game to a point, that maybe only 5-10 midfielders have ever reached in the history of this beautiful Game, doesn't mean he wasnt class.

Cesc could hardly get a start while xavi, Inieata and xabi was in midfield for spain, only later on did he become a stater and not in his right position, doesn't that mean he wasnt world class?

PS I hate cesc

I'm 28. I've watched Barca under Rijkhaard. Now that's out of the way, which are the things you're talking about. Elaborate.

The discussion is Xavi being world class at age 22-24. Not about anything else. I don't think he was and gave arguments, according to the definition I use for the term world class.

If anything, you seem to agree with the fact that Pep elevated Xavi to a new level, which is entirely different to what [MENTION=21618]FlaFCB[/MENTION] posted. She said Pep only used Xavi, didn't develop him. Now you say Pep elevated Xavi to a point that maybe only 5-10 midfielders have ever reached. Which is one of the points I made and was argued against by Flavia and khaled.

 

[te amo barca]

[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION]

Judging whether a player was "WC level" or not by NT appearances is not even logical. Very often better players are not even called up/not played because of the preferences of the NT coach. Club football is what defines this thing. By your logic Renato Sanches (19) or Joao Mario (23) are already world class because they were important midfielders in Portugal's EURO-2016 winning campaigne and better than Xavi aged 23-25 when he "did not play in the EURO because he was not world class", which is obviously not true.

 

[serghei]

[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION]

Judging whether a player was "WC level" or not by NT appearances is not even logical. Very often better players are not even called up/not played because of the preferences of the NT coach. Club football is what defines this thing. By your logic Renato Sanches (19) or Joao Mario (23) are already world class because they were important midfielders in Portugal's EURO-2016 winning campaigne and better than Xavi aged 23-25 when he "did not play in the EURO because he was not world class", which is obviously not true.

No. I used the argument that world class players are at least regulars with their NT. Not that whoever is a regular at their national team is a world class player.

"Better players are not even called up/not played". Who decides they are better?

 

[FlaFCB]

I'm 28. I've watched Barca under Rijkhaard. Now that's out of the way, which are the things you're talking about. Elaborate.

The discussion is Xavi being world class at age 22-24. Not about anything else. I don't think he was and gave arguments, according to the definition I use for the term world class.

If anything, you seem to agree with the fact that Pep elevated Xavi to a new level, which is entirely different to what @FlaFCB posted. She said Pep only used Xavi, didn't develop him. Now you say Pep elevated Xavi to a point that maybe only 5-10 midfielders have ever reached. Which is one of the points I made and was argued against by Flavia and khaled.

Developing a 28 year old, who had already won best player at the euros. That's new.

And no, your argument as that Xavi was like Gomes at 23. A developing player with problems, and he wasn't. He was already a starter, and a world class player. If you consider freaking alexis wc, I have no idea how 23 xavi wasn't.

No. I used the argument that world class players are at least regulars with their NT. Not that whoever is a regular at their national team is a world class player.

This is a fallacy. And not true. Also contradictory.

 

[serghei]

Developing a 28 year old, who had already won best player at the euros. That's new.

And no, your argument as that Xavi was like Gomes at 23. A developing player with problems, and he wasn't. He was already a starter, and a world class player. If you consider freaking alexis wc, I have no idea how 23 xavi wasn't.



This is a fallacy. And not true. Also contradictory.

Find me several players who are world class and are not regulars with their NT, or they are subs with 0 minuts played at a major tournament. Then I will tell you that said players are not world class. Because world class is deciding games of this magnitude.

 

[FlaFCB]

Find me several players who are world class and are not regulars with their NT, or they are subs with 0 minuts played at a major tournament. Then I will tell you that said players are not world class. Because world class is deciding games of this magnitude.

Games of this magnitude?

Alright.

Also, here, watch some 2004 Xavi for Spain:

 

[te amo barca]

Find me several players who are world class and are not regulars with their NT, or they are subs with 0 minuts played at a major tournament. Then I will tell you that said players are not world class. Because world class is deciding games of this magnitude.

International tournaments may have been the pinnacle of football in the 20th century, but in the 21st century, club football, especially Champions League knock-off rounds, are of a much higher level than any of WC, EURO and Copa America.

 

[serghei]

International tournaments may have been the pinnacle of football in the 20th century, but in the 21st century, club football, especially Champions League knock-off rounds, are of much higher level than any of WC, EURO and Copa America.

You're still required as a world class player to at least be an important presence at these tournaments. Especially considering that at 22-24, Xavi wasn't exactly tearing it up in CL. In 2002-2003 for example Barcelona ended 6th in La Liga.

 

[jamrock]

I'm 28. I've watched Barca under Rijkhaard. Now that's out of the way, which are the things you're talking about. Elaborate.

The discussion is Xavi being world class at age 22-24. Not about anything else. I don't think he was and gave arguments, according to the definition I use for the term world class.

If anything, you seem to agree with the fact that Pep elevated Xavi to a new level, which is entirely different to what [MENTION=21618]FlaFCB[/MENTION] posted. She said Pep only used Xavi, didn't develop him. Now you say Pep elevated Xavi to a point that maybe only 5-10 midfielders have ever reached. Which is one of the points I made and was argued against by Flavia and khaled.

I think you saw a barca game here and there, but as you your self said, you didn't watch them like you do now.

Which again, explains you views on xavi.

I'm saying xavi came on to the seen under van gaal and played a big part then in winning la Liga, I'm saying from then bar a dip in form here and there, a young xavi was nothinh short of class, under rijkaard he was amongst the best midfielders in the world, before that amongst the best in spain.

Because the elevated his game to godly levels under pep doesn't mean he wasnt world class before that, because where he brought his game under pep is something way beyond WC. He was the living embodiment of what a central midfielder should be.

Modric is a WC midfielder, probably the best in the game right now, since iniesta is getting kinda old and injury hit.

What xavi was under pep, was way more than WC, it was something else.

What he was under rijkaard, was WC.

 

[te amo barca]

You're still required as a world class player to at least be an important presence at these tournaments.

No you aren't? Gotze won the WC for Germany and he is far from "world class". Eder won the EURO for Portugal. James was playing like Messi during the WC in Brazil. It's easier to perform better on international tournaments because it's easier to be focused and motivated for just 6-7 games rather than playing the whole season, about 40-60 games on a high level for a club.

I agree with you that a world class player is someone who can decide the outcomes of games on his own, but a world class player should also be very consistent throughout the entire season. That's why international tournaments do not make someone "world class" all of the sudden.

 

[serghei]

I think you saw a barca game here and there, but as you your self said, you didn't watch them like you do now.

Which again, explains you views on xavi.

I'm saying xavi came on to the seen under van gaal and played a big part then in winning la Liga, I'm saying from then bar a dip in form here and there, a young xavi was nothinh short of class, under rijkaard he was amongst the best midfielders in the world, before that amongst the best in spain.

Because the elevated his game to godly levels under pep doesn't mean he wasnt world class before that, because where he brought his game under pep is something way beyond WC. He was the living embodiment of what a central midfielder should be.

Modric is a WC midfielder, probably the best in the game right now, since iniesta is getting kinda old and injury hit.

What xavi was under pep, was way more than WC, it was something else.

What he was under rijkaard, was WC.

Under Rijkhaard when he won La Liga in 2005 and 2006, he was already 25-26. Starting to enter in his prime years. The initial argument was about Xavi at 22-23, not Xavi at 25-26, which is closer to the period he started to become the magnificent player he was under Pep. Stick to the argument. At 25-26 he was an important player for Spain NT as well.

 

[FlaFCB]

Under Rijkhaard when he won La Liga in 2005 and 2006, he was already 25-26. Starting to enter in his prime years. The initial argument was about Xavi at 22-23, not Xavi at 25-26, which is closer to the period he started to become the magnificent player he was under Pep. Stick to the argument. At 25-26 he was an important player for Spain NT as well.

Now you're changing your argument. Before he only turned wc or an important player for spain at 28, after Pep became Barça coach. Make up your mind, man

Also, a player who decides a clasico at the bernabeu at 23 is what? Isn't deciding big games your way of saying if a player is wc? Did you even see the videos I posted? Funny you ignored them

 

[jamrock]

Under Rijkhaard when he won La Liga in 2005 and 2006, he was already 25-26. Starting to enter in his prime years. The initial argument was about Xavi at 22-23, not Xavi at 25-26, which is closer to the period he started to become the magnificent player he was under Pep. Stick to the argument. At 25-26 he was an important player for Spain NT as well.

And I said before then, since he helped us win the league under van gaal when he was 19-21 he was class bar a few dip in form due to the club being run like crap then.

At that stage gomes is nowhere near as good.

 

[serghei]

No you aren't? Gotze won the WC for Germany and he is far from "world class". Eder won the EURO for Portugal. James was playing like Messi during the WC in Brazil. It's easier to perform better on international tournaments because it's easier to be focused and motivated for just 6-7 games rather than playing the whole season, about 40-60 games on a high level for a club.

I agree with you that a world class player is someone who can decide the outcomes of games on his own, but a world class player should also be very consistent throughout the entire season. That's why international tournaments do not make someone "world class" all of the sudden.

I didn't say international tournaments make someone world class. But that someone can't be world class and almost completely be missing from the international tournaments that took place exactly in the period he was supposedly a player of world class quality. Not to mention that during 2002-2004 Barcelona was hardly a team that played on the biggest stage. How can you be world class and not even play in the greatest games, the games with the highest pressure? In other words, the exact games that make someone world class?