Why are you a Barcelona fan?

[estranged]

Your post is certainly more 'eye role' worthy than the one you quoted.

 

[Doobs]

Cuz of Messi and all the success

+1

 

[Plip]

Your post is certainly more 'eye role' worthy than the one you quoted.

Well, aren't you a little sunshine.

Point being, it seems the "All La Masia" has become more of an obsession among the fans and the desirable end in lieu of the means to maintain the competitiveness of our team.

Besides, paying top notch prices for the players above is still a crude reality, regardless of our current situation. The fact that memories stretch no further than 2008 on a number of occasions is becoming ever-frustrating. By this, I mean simply that we've only recently been able to achieve the coveted position of having both quality and a great amount of youth players contributing to the team at large.

Edit: emphasis added.

 

[FCBarca]

Pretty cynical take, Plip...What other big clubs are even remotely in Barcelona's stratosphere in developing their own talent and using them in the first team?

 

[La Furia]

Well, aren't you a little sunshine.

Point being, it seems the "All La Masia" has become more of an obsession among the fans and the desirable end in lieu of the means to maintain the competitiveness of our team.

Besides, paying top notch prices for the players above is still a crude reality, regardless of our current situation. The fact that memories stretch no further than 2008 on a number of occasions is becoming ever-frustrating. By this, I mean simply that we've only recently been able to achieve the coveted position of having both quality and a great amount of youth players contributing to the team at large.

Edit: emphasis added.

Well said, now that my guests are gone and I have time, I'm going to write that post I told you about in a few hours. I can see just from what you have said how much I'm going to get flamed.

 

[Fishdoll]

I'm not Plip but Ajax comes immediately to mind in terms of clubs with pedigree that use their own youth products. If you'd prefer to remain in the Iberian peninsula, the Athletic also comes to mind, with the additional self-imposed restrictions that the players from ITS academy are only from Euskal Herria.

 

[La Furia]

I'm not Plip but Ajax comes immediately to mind in terms of clubs with pedigree that use their own youth products. If you'd prefer to remain in the Iberian peninsula, the Athletic also comes to mind, with the additional self-imposed restrictions that the players from ITS academy are only from Euskal Herria.

You could also mention virtually every club in Latin America, where with the exception of Brazil and Mexico, teams rarely have more than a handful of imports and use most of their limited resources on player development.

To give you a hint about what I'm starting a thread on later, Both Barca and Athletic are guilty of the same thing - buying older teenagers from small nearby clubs for pennies and claiming them as their own. Not that scouting local talent is a crime, but the rhetoric used for political purposes is another story.

 

[Doobs]

To give you a hint about what I'm starting a thread on later, Both Barca and Athletic are guilty of the same thing - buying older teenagers from small nearby clubs for pennies and claiming them as their own. Not that scouting local talent is a crime, but the rhetoric used for political purposes is another story.

Exactly, there is a difference between a 'discoverer club' and a 'nurturer club'. Most players in famous youth academies are not discovered by them. This hold true for La Masia as well for players like Pedro and Busquets. Although most Catalan talent does come through Barcelona.

Another example would be Mata, who came through Oviedo but is passed off as a Madrid youth player.

 

[Garrus]

You could also mention virtually every club in Latin America, where with the exception of Brazil and Mexico, teams rarely have more than a handful of imports and use most of their limited resources on player development.

To give you a hint about what I'm starting a thread on later, Both Barca and Athletic are guilty of the same thing - buying older teenagers from small nearby clubs for pennies and claiming them as their own. Not that scouting local talent is a crime, but the rhetoric used for political purposes is another story.

When you say 'Claiming them as their own' I'm guessing you mean as a 'youth product'.
Juvenile A, Barcelona C, and even B Like it or not are a considered youth teams, And when talking about the latter one, It is more of a fact than a personal opinion, The ages you see in there is an enough proof i think.
You seem to propose a certain age limit where beyond it you're not permitted to call him a youth product, And i remember you making a similar remark about sergio, Well he came when he was 16, And you know that of course, So why 16 is your limit, Why not 15, 17 or 18 or even 19, What's so special about the age 16.
It was never an 'age' thing, It was about development, And sorry to say this, But you deliberately chose to miss this, When everyone one hears about a youth product, Or a la masia player, They just imagine a young, Obscure, Unknown player, that someday became a world class player playing for the first team, That's it, Because that's the whole idea and the fuss is about, It doesn't matter how old they were when they came, The desired outcome is the same.

 

[Plip]

Mike: it's not cynical, I'm just being realistic.

The fact that we've been able to enter into a period of growth both trophy and youth wise should be respected and cherished. But claiming that we've always been in such a position (many do) is short-sighted. When the Dream Team was crumbling we barely had any prospects that looked even half-decent in the B team. Both Xavi and Puyol were anomalies of their time, which led us to rely on players like Oleguer, Gerard Lopez and Gabri as our base.

Just saying that we have only recently had the luck to enjoy fully of the labour of our youth academy, and we should enjoy of it to its fullest. Not to the detriment of the team as a whole, however.

In terms of youth development Athletic, Ajax, River and Boca come to mind.

 

[La Furia]

When you say 'Claiming them as their own' I'm guessing you mean as a 'youth product'.
Juvenile A, Barcelona C, and even B Like it or not are a considered youth teams, And when talking about the latter one, It is more of a fact than a personal opinion, The ages you see in there is an enough proof i think.
You seem to propose a certain age limit where beyond it you're not permitted to call him a youth product, And i remember you making a similar remark about sergio, Well he came when he was 16, And you know that of course, So why 16 is your limit, Why not 15, 17 or 18 or even 19, What's so special about the age 16.
It was never an 'age' thing, It was about development, And sorry to say this, But you deliberately chose to miss this, When everyone one hears about a youth product, Or a la masia player, They just imagine a young, Obscure, Unknown player, that someday became a world class player playing for the first team, That's it, Because that's the whole idea and the fuss is about, It doesn't matter how old they were when they came, The desired outcome is the same.

I'm going to expand on this later, but at the same time Alba, Cesc and Pique all left Barca at around the same age the likes of Busquets and Puyol were bought. Yet cules have a fit when Arsenal tries to take credit for Cesc. It's clear Barca has played a role in the trajectory of every one of these players, but it's the hypocrisy and attempt to moralize it I have a problem with. If you wanted to you could argue even some expensive signings like Ronaldinho were "made" by Barca considering they only reached their peak on this team.

Barca's youth academy right now is one of the best in the world, if not the best. But this team doesn't have some sort of moral authority for it, and it's important to acknowledge the role expensive imports have and continue to play on Barcelona. I remember when Madrid had more homegrown players than Barca did; these things often come in cycles and since both clubs are too rich to fade away, there will be a time where the roles are once again reversed.

Mike: it's not cynical, I'm just being realistic.

The fact that we've been able to enter into a period of growth both trophy and youth wise should be respected and cherished. But claiming that we've always been in such a position (many do) is short-sighted. When the Dream Team was crumbling we barely had any prospects that looked even half-decent in the B team. Both Xavi and Puyol were anomalies of their time, which led us to rely on players like Oleguer, Gerard Lopez and Gabri as our base.

Just saying that we have only recently had the luck to enjoy fully of the labour of our youth academy, and we should enjoy of it to its fullest. Not to the detriment of the team as a whole, however.

In terms of youth development Athletic, Ajax, River and Boca come to mind.

Exactly.

 

[Garrus]

I'm going to expand on this later, but at the same time Alba, Cesc and Pique all left Barca at around the same age the likes of Busquets and Puyol were bought. Yet cules have a fit when Arsenal tries to take credit for Cesc. It's clear Barca has played a role in the trajectory of every one of these players, but it's the hypocrisy and attempt to moralize it I have a problem with. If you wanted to you could argue even some expensive signings like Ronaldinho were "made" by Barca considering they only reached their peak on this team.

Barca's youth academy right now is one of the best in the world, if not the best. But this team doesn't have some sort of moral authority for it, and it's important to acknowledge the role expensive imports have and continue to play on Barcelona. I remember when Madrid had more homegrown players than Barca did; these things often come in cycles and since both clubs are too rich to fade away, there will be a time where the roles are once again reversed.

The idea of la masia is to 'nurture' talented young players, Allowing them to fulfill their full penitential, And use them in the future as a first team players, The club benefits in 2 ways:
1-They avoid expensive imports for 1st team players
2-Produce players that can offer more loyalty than an imported ones
If these 2 things happened, Then it's mission accomplished for the club, And this applies for most of current la masia players, Including the likes of sergio, pedro, Puyol, They weren't 12 years old when they came to barca, But it doesn't matter, As long as la masia made sure these 2 outcomes happen, It's job done.
It didn't go perfect all the time and players ended up being sold, Fabregas, Pique and alba, and none of the two goals were accomplished, But look at it in another way, These 3 are world class players, And have a common thing between them, It can't be a coincidence, Like you said, La masia had a big trajectory in their life, It didn't fulfill it's 'true' mission with them, But helped in development in great players who will benefit the club in the future, Even if it's indirectly.
The reason i found your 'Claiming them as their own' perculing, Is you said it as if Barca made la masia just so they can 'gloat' about youth players in dinner parties, They don't need to claim anything about anyone, They're Reaping what they sowed, and the rewards are showing right their in the field, The trophies, the world wide recognition.
You have a problem calling it a youth product project because it's not really as perfect as that, Fine, Let's call it la nurturer, It's more broad and encompasses all of the current players, Now the club and all the fans can gloat about la nurturer and how it's the reason barca the way it is today

 

[ammarfcb]

because my competitive cousin is madridista.

 

[FCBarca]

Mike: it's not cynical, I'm just being realistic.

The fact that we've been able to enter into a period of growth both trophy and youth wise should be respected and cherished. But claiming that we've always been in such a position (many do) is short-sighted. When the Dream Team was crumbling we barely had any prospects that looked even half-decent in the B team. Both Xavi and Puyol were anomalies of their time, which led us to rely on players like Oleguer, Gerard Lopez and Gabri as our base.

Still seems a bit cynical, for me. Sure, the current/recent era has seen the fruits of the academy but you could easily argue that it has taken this long to finally strike the balance necessary to produce talent consistently out of the cantera. You can say the same about Spanish football in general. Not sure why that can't be taken as a source of pride in a club you support when most big/successful clubs in the world are buying most of their talent on an annual basis and cannot either cultivate the passion or play for the club that would generate even more fans.

I loved Ronnie but there's a lot more to gain, for me, in seeing someone who has spent years learning about the club and being educated/indoctrinated in the ethos of the club succeed with the first team - like say Iniesta or Messi...You can't buy that sort of passion for the club

Just saying that we have only recently had the luck to enjoy fully of the labour of our youth academy, and we should enjoy of it to its fullest. Not to the detriment of the team as a whole, however.

In terms of youth development Athletic, Ajax, River and Boca come to mind.

Absolutely, it's a recent phenomena with no sign of letup for awhile still...But more importantly, Pep's use of the cantera kids has re-emphasized the value of using the cantera kids so that there is a greater investment in finding and cultivating those talents in La Masia rather than gambling on high priced mercenaries who you never know can integrate properly or not. It is a newer phenomena but it is what it is, not sure we can downplay that impact - it surely has to be looked at as a foundation now for this club...Not sure where the detriment to the club enters into the discussion, however.

Great youth development at the aforementioned clubs but nowhere near the sporting or economic success of Barcelona

 

[FCBarca]

Barca's youth academy right now is one of the best in the world, if not the best. But this team doesn't have some sort of moral authority for it, and it's important to acknowledge the role expensive imports have and continue to play on Barcelona. I remember when Madrid had more homegrown players than Barca did; these things often come in cycles and since both clubs are too rich to fade away, there will be a time where the roles are once again reversed.

Absolutely, this like most things in life happen in cycles...Right now, it's an era of Barcelona hegemony - particularly on the youth academy level...And absolutely foreign imports & scouting has figured prominently in that, although that's far cry from suggesting it is a predominant feature - there are mostly Catalans in the youth academy