Thiago Alcantara

snowy

New member
I know Whoscored has him as a CM, but the matches I've seen him in, he's been an outright AM. Ziyech is a fun player to watch, no doubt, but in my eyes he's much more attacking than what we currently need.

Yes very true. That's why it would be good to sign him up in combination with both Thiago and Arthur who offer a very strong defensive profile. This would bring quality, depth and versatility to our MF.

Will be interesting how Morocco fare vs Iran on the 15th and Portugal on the 20th.

Might be a draw vs Iran who are shrewd defensively but I reckon they can successfully handle Portugal. Tough group B with Spain on the 26th. Portugal could suffer an early stage upset elimination.

This might work in 2003, but modern full backs must be athletic, quick and mobile, with the ability to go up and down the pitch regularly.

Playin it old school. Reason I asked is because even experienced and fast FB like Alves, Marcelo and Alba sometimes can't track back in time during quick counters. Wouldn't it be safer then to have the FB not venture much farther up than the mid-line rather than doing verticals all the way up the pitch :thinking:

basically, let the MF dudes take it from there
 

Trickykid

New member
Yes very true. That's why it would be good to sign him up in combination with both Thiago and Arthur who offer a very strong defensive profile. This would bring quality, depth and versatility to our MF.

I'm really not sure if we have room in the team for someone like him, though. Messi and Coutinho will obviously be our biggest creative resources, and I doubt Ziyech would slot in with them. As a backup player, he'd most likely be too expensive - especially considering we don't really have his natural position in the team.
 

snowy

New member
I'm really not sure if we have room in the team for someone like him, though. Messi and Coutinho will obviously be our biggest creative resources, and I doubt Ziyech would slot in with them. As a backup player, he'd most likely be too expensive - especially considering we don't really have his natural position in the team.

I think AS Roma are close to signing him for about 25 million Euro. Sure it's a gamble but for what he can bring, the risk's gotta be worth the stretch.

The way I see it, Messi is such a great finisher that it's a shame he doesn't get more service. Remember how for the past 2 years, Messi being forced to drop back to MF to carry the ball forward has been a recurring issue.

So here's a player who averages close to 4 key passes per game. That could take a load of Messi's and Couti's backs and allow them to focus further up-front, where they'll get more shots at the net.

If not him, I'd have suggested Zaha, one my favs :), but he's gotten too expensive at this point and Crystal wanna keep him.

Also, having an extra player to detract the attention off Leo would be a good thing and add variety/unpredictability to our attack.

Me thinks trade Paco and give it a go yo! :lol:

Anyways, even if pans out that he can't adapt to our style, with his set of skills, other clubs would be keen on signing him up and we could even make a nice profit out of the op. ...

Adventurous part of the post (sensitive nature, do abstain!) :

With the idea to service more balls to the front 3, we could even experiment with 3 4 3 at times, specially if could sign another strong CB like Koulibaly. Something like:


-------------Coutinho-----------Messi------------Dembele--------------


------Arthur------------Busi---------------Thiago--------------Ziyech-----


__________Umtiti_____________Koulibaly______________Pique____________

Take the Roma game for instance. With this lineup, they still might score a few but we'd annihilate them on the attack.

ps. I must admit, I'm biased attack :)
 
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M

MessiCam

Guest
Where do you find such graphics?

Do you have one for Arthur?

Here is Arthur's radar

Xxy4cgYl.jpg
 

snowy

New member
Arthur looks great for our slow passing the ball around tactic.

maybe ruski hackers tempered with the signals :detective:

If accurate though, could try smthg like this :2guns::

------------------------------Messi----------------------------------

-----------Coutinho======================Dembele----------------

_________________Ziyech_(a)__________Ziyech_(b)____________

--------------------------------Busi------------------------------------

------------------Arthur------------------------Thiago------------------


__________Umtiti_____________Koulibaly____________ __Pique____________
 
M

MessiCam

Guest
Hahaha not making any snap judgements but that's a terrible graph :lol:

First season with Gremio so not a very conclusive radar. He is looking a whole lot better in attacking terms in 2018 but a little worse defensively...

Passes per game are up by about 20 per game and the accuracy is 2% better
Interceptions have more than doubled from 1.1 - 2.4 (Raw numbers not possession adjusted)
Tackles have halved from 1.9 to 0.8 (Raw numbers not possession adjusted)
Sucessful dribbles is way up from 0.6 to 2.2 at 92% success rate
Duels up from 5 to 8.8 at 68% success rate
Dispossessions have more than doubled from 0.7 to 1.8
Dribbled passed is roughly the same
Scoring contribution is way up from 0.04 to 0.4

I have no through ball data but I am working on it...
 

Joan

Well-known member
First season with Gremio so not a very conclusive radar. He is looking a whole lot better in attacking terms in 2018 but a little worse defensively...

Passes per game are up by about 20 per game and the accuracy is 2% better
Interceptions have more than doubled from 1.1 - 2.4 (Raw numbers not possession adjusted)
Tackles have halved from 1.9 to 0.8 (Raw numbers not possession adjusted)
Sucessful dribbles is way up from 0.6 to 2.2 at 92% success rate
Duels up from 5 to 8.8 at 68% success rate
Dispossessions have more than doubled from 0.7 to 1.8
Dribbled passed is roughly the same
Scoring contribution is way up from 0.04 to 0.4

I have no through ball data but I am working on it...

Key passes are also up from 0.9 to 1.2
 

Vilarrubi

New member
Just watched some YouTube vids of Thiago.. haven’t seen much of him at Bayern.

But I think he can play that Xavi role very well.. his turns on the ball and passes transitioning play from the defence to attack is class.

We’ve lacked that in recent years with that same passing backwards and sideways at the back when teams press high.
 
M

MessiCam

Guest
Key passes are also up from 0.9 to 1.2

His current radar is very similar to the Thiago 2011/12 radar apart from the tackles and through balls.

Arthur looks very low on through balls in general but I’m finding it tough to get data on it other than assists via through balls which is not what we’re looking for. I will get it though.
 

Laplacian

Senior Member
Thiago offers mobility and pace in tight spaces, quick passing, and ability to control the tempo of the game. He's the type of midfielder we've been missing since Xavi left. If we don't get him back because Barcelona wants to play hardball then I'll be so pissed.

Wouldn't mind an actual 2nd midfielder to fill up the more advanced role either. I still don't think Coutinho should be anything other than a winger.
 

Joan

Well-known member
His current radar is very similar to the Thiago 2011/12 radar apart from the tackles and through balls.

Arthur looks very low on through balls in general but I’m finding it tough to get data on it other than assists via through balls which is not what we’re looking for. I will get it though.

I remember Khaled talking about defence breaking through balls. Seems like he had a point.
Actually what I mean by defense breaking pass is both of what you said, a pass that open things is what I want, Iniesta pass to Digne few days ago was a defense breaking pass and it was pre-assist. To see those things that no one sees or read the game so well to make it easier to break defense is what I want. The pass could be to Messi to go 1 on 1 against the GK, or to Alba in a great position where he can make assist. both works for me. Xavi excelled in both for example, and Arthur is a player compared to him style wise (we all agree that level wise he doesn't need to be Xavi)
 
M

MessiCam

Guest
Thiago offers mobility and pace in tight spaces, quick passing, and ability to control the tempo of the game. He's the type of midfielder we've been missing since Xavi left. If we don't get him back because Barcelona wants to play hardball then I'll be so pissed.

Wouldn't mind an actual 2nd midfielder to fill up the more advanced role either. I still don't think Coutinho should be anything other than a winger.

Agreed on the second midfielder but who is a CM possessing great attacking qualities while being a realistic transfer target? They're not dime a dozen...
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Thiago is the definition of a clueless midfielder with a brilliant technique and is also a injury prone. Cant believe we are thinking about to spend 70+ for him. He is so much rated here an dont know why. Never been a fan of him since his first days for us. Its not enough to just keep the ball and play it safe back and sidewards but thats what we are getting here. A rakitic with a better technique but who cant defend.

I would say yes to him only if his price would be reasonable. If bayern is intending to sell him they will play it hard just to cash really hard on us because they know our board is easily to trick....

I watched more videos today of him and Xavi, and I have the same feeling about this "clueless part".
I will pull an IQ card again and say that Thiago seems as if he doesn't know what he is doing.
A controller should be a brain of a team, and Thiago is not that guy.

Xavi was the master.
He was the brain.
He was TikiTaka for me.
Without Xavi, Iniesta's and Busi's game wouldn't make too much sense, imo.
Xavi's brain and vision turned Pep's Barca and Spain into an absolute dominating class.

I have already said, I see midfielders as leaders and supporters.
Further, both Xavi and Thiago are controllers.
But Xavi controlled the game in a logical and active way.
While with Thiago, I don't think that he has too much ideas what will happen in any action.
He is way more passive, without such a vision and he needs a lot of support from other creators.

Now, try to look what I am trying to say:
Whenever Xavi gets the ball, he stops, looks at his teammates and all opponents.
And his brain has 3-4 solutions and he is trying to pick the best one which will create a 1 vs 1 chance for his team in the end.
For example, "a natural" Xavi from 2004 (aged 23-24), way before Pep:

Look at how he is always looking for attacking options.
He rarely makes backpasses to a CB.
And even his sideway passes are still forward-sideway passes.

And now, for example Thiago:
He is afraid. He is not a leader in midfield. He is afraid to ask for the ball and DO something with it in every single action.
He "needs" someone else around him who will help him and he can't carry a burden of creation alone on his shoulders.
Also, look how many shit backpasses he has, or how many times he asks for the ball, ONLY to pass it back to the same player with a first touch pass.
Wtf? What is the point of that?
He is asking the ball only for the sake of touching the ball and not doing anything with it.

Then guys, remember how Xavi looked for options, teammates. How he was dribbling, shielding the ball, playing forward whenever possible, even as a deep lying playmaker.

So, in some things Thiago resembles of Xavi.
But in some ways, he looks like a dumb Jordi Alba as a CM.
Good technique, passes, somewhat fast. But his decisions and overall visions are quite meh and nowhere near the level of Xavi.

I would dare to say that Rakitic has way better IQ.
But his technique sucks though.
Thiago is technically gifted, but not too bright controller.

Again, it doesn't mean that he can't make some good things here and there.
But if you guys are expecting some sort of Xavi's heir from him, well.

Xavi WAS TikiTaka.
Thiago is just a random flashy footballer, without world class vision and decisions.

** To some extent, I can understand why Hoeness and Matheus are letting him go.
Also, guys, Bayern's reject is supposed to be our midfield savior. Ouch.
Something is "off" in this story.

Either Bayern is dumb and wrong in letting him go.
Or our fans are way overrating Thiago.
 
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