Pep Guardiola
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khaled_a_d
Senior Member
Like you Ursegor, but don't try to predict game results again. It is just not your thing.
Well, they got better results than City with Pep
Ursegor
World Champion
Like you Ursegor, but don't try to predict game results again. It is just not your thing.
Bald fraud was supposed to be banter. Now it's reality. I didn't get the memo.
Messigician
Senior Member
Dear pep you personify the Barcelona style of play but it can only work here with players like Messi and De Jong not players like Fernandinho who don't even look like pro footballers losing to Germany in the world cup.
Time to leave those dead end clubs and come back to Barca
Time to leave those dead end clubs and come back to Barca
Nothanks
New member
I mean the fault still lies on him
he has literally 100% control of who is brought in and sold
this is his what, 3rd season in charge?
if his players are bad it's totally on him for not figuring out that was the case, especially when he has an endless amount of money to bring in whomever he wants.
he has literally 100% control of who is brought in and sold
this is his what, 3rd season in charge?
if his players are bad it's totally on him for not figuring out that was the case, especially when he has an endless amount of money to bring in whomever he wants.
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khaled_a_d
Senior Member
True
Look at his starting XI
Ederson,Laporte,Mendy,Walker,Gündogan & Bernardo were all signed by Pep
Agüero,KDB, Sterling were the ones that were there before him and have been top players in the game. Kompany & D.Silva also were there but he has spent zillions on players on their position like Stones and yet started them again.
utility73
Senior Member
No coach is perfect and so Pep isn‘t either.
One of his weak spots is definitely when picking new personnel for his back line. He puts too much emphasis on their offensive potential and neglects defensive capabilities. Mendy, Walker and Ederson are really good examples for that. Without his footie skills Ederson is a mediocre goalie, Mendy is a defensive horror show and Walker not much better in that regard.
Of the ones mentioned before only Laporte is usually somewhat competent in defense even though his two brainfucks cost them dearly yesterday. Forgot about Stones, but he was injured quite a long time.
Bernardo Silva on the other hand is a very good player. His liking of Gündogan I do not understand either. He is a workhorse but with very limited capabilities. And what his problems with Sané might be, who knows.
Still in the matchup vs the Spurs City did not get thrown out due to their backline invididual defensive capabilities.
Pep was at fault, as others have already mentioned, for not playing to its teams strentghs in the first leg. They could have decided it right then. But by playing it mostly conservatively he levelled the playing field in favor of the weaker Spurs side.
One of his weak spots is definitely when picking new personnel for his back line. He puts too much emphasis on their offensive potential and neglects defensive capabilities. Mendy, Walker and Ederson are really good examples for that. Without his footie skills Ederson is a mediocre goalie, Mendy is a defensive horror show and Walker not much better in that regard.
Of the ones mentioned before only Laporte is usually somewhat competent in defense even though his two brainfucks cost them dearly yesterday. Forgot about Stones, but he was injured quite a long time.
Bernardo Silva on the other hand is a very good player. His liking of Gündogan I do not understand either. He is a workhorse but with very limited capabilities. And what his problems with Sané might be, who knows.
Still in the matchup vs the Spurs City did not get thrown out due to their backline invididual defensive capabilities.
Pep was at fault, as others have already mentioned, for not playing to its teams strentghs in the first leg. They could have decided it right then. But by playing it mostly conservatively he levelled the playing field in favor of the weaker Spurs side.
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Vilarrubi
New member
I just think the height thing has little to do with it thats all. Modric at 172, Xavi at 170 and Iniesta at 171 are the 3 best midfielders in the CL over the last 10 years BY FAR.
You need technical and athletic players in the CL but when you get the technical and tactical aspect right it beats the physical guys like with Ajax vs Juventus.
I agree I don't think Pep will ever win the CL again tbh.. he lost the tie in the first leg with his strange starting 11, he overthinks stuff.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Modric wouldn't win anything without DIFFERENT type of players around him.
I don't have anything against Modric or Xavi.
But today they need to be paired with different players with different set of skills.
Now, on our forum, you will always hear a reply: No, you don't need different profiles. WE dominated with Xavi-Iniesta WITHOUT height and muscles during Pep.
Well, isn't it a legitimate question: would those guys win a CL without Messi to save their ass? We don't know.
Look at Pep. For 6 years he has copies of Xavi and Iniesta and he can't do shit with that type of players.
So, on one hand:
Xavi-Iniesta and Pep's Barca=are a proof that these type of players are enough for a CL trophy
But Pep's players POST Barca=are a proof that these type of players are not good enough for a CL trophy (either: not good anymore in 2019 or not good WITHOUT Messi to raise them to a GOAT level in terms of results)
Or:
Modric during CR7 is a proof that these type of players bring CL trophies.
But today, Modric WITHOUT Cr7 can't do shit. So, again, is Modric enough or again, you need everything, both Modric, both some workhorses and one Messi/CR7 to bring you to the highest levels?
And this is my problem with some members here.
Their answer for everything is: Xavi and Iniesta and similar players are the answer for everything.
But then again, look at Real who won 4 CLs in 5 years:
1. they had one Xavi in Modric
2. but they had one Casemiro, a typical, strong, tall workhorse. Plus, Kroos is far from Bernardo Silva/David Silva level of physical skills.
3. further, Real had CR7 in attack as a final part of their winning team
Now, let's check Pep's City:
1. they don't have only one Xavi, they have several Xavis in their midfield.
2. but they don't have Casemiro
3. also, in attack, they don't have CR7. They have 3 short players and pass around the box all the time
4. further, Pep always plays crazy attacking game with a high defensive line. And when City passes the ball around the box, and when they lose the ball, they are faced with deadly counters.
And then, go back to a point NO2: they have a high line, fullbacks are pushing too far into attack, and they don't have true defensive midfielders or defensive workhorses in midfield.
Now, tell, me, which team is more prone to deadly counters: City with a crazy too attacking tactics, fullbacks in the attack, and without true physical defensive midfielders to stop the counters?
Or, RM:
1) who don't play a crazy high defensive line
2) who's fullbacks are not crazy too attacking
3) who have Casemiro plus at least one out of Modric/Kroos to help back against counters
Or, even EV's team:
1) our defensive line is not as crazy as Pep's
2) Semedo is not THAT attacking
3) would you rather have Busi, Arthur, Raki against counters (who are not pushing too far into the attack like David Silva, KDB and City's players) or City's midfield?
On top of all, RM and Barca had CR7 and Messi in attack to bring the final advantage.
Now look at City, all they have is:
1) possession
2) good off the ball movement due to short, mobile, light, technical midfielders and attackers
But they lack, compared to Real and Barca:
1) defense
2) defensive midfielders
3) some height, muscles and defense in midfield
4) a guy like Messi or CR7 in attack to bring the advantage
No offense, but I feel like talking with not too bright posters when they reply: BUT BUT BUT we won with Xavi and Iniesta, as an answer for every single problem.
Even if Xavi and Iniesta worked back then, it was 10 years ago.
And even then, they had Messi. It is questionable whether they would win against a world class team with Messi in their lineup.
And everything indicates that Xavi-Iniesta and Pep's possession football is not working today in a CL.
Real won 4 Cls with:
1) counters, unlike Pep
2) not with playing too attacking, unlike Pep
3) with some defense and muscles in midfield, unlike Pep's teams
4) with some height and headers as a plan B in attack (CR7, Benzema), unlike Pep's teams with Aguero, Jesus, Sterling and Bernardo.
5) with less crazy attacking fullbacks, unlike Pep
So, again, saying that RM won because of Modric or because of Modric-Kroos (or Isco) is imo, dumbing down football to a childish levels.
Also, even if Pep would have won a CL, would that mean that his style works?
I mean, if he wins it once in 10 years?
On the other hand, Real's less attacking, more cautious, less possession based, more counters and headers based football won way more trophies.
So, how on Earth is then Pep's style the best style for a CL?
And once again, look at last World cups, Germany and France.
Their teams were closer to Real or more cautious, direct and muscled (yet technical) football than to Pep's and Barca's football.
Pep's football is a GOAT for league championship against weaker teams.
But for a CL, his football is just suicidal, except on rare occasions when he has Messi and a best midfield generation ever (plus Dani Alves).
So, imo, maybe it is time to ask: whether his football was really that good for a CL, or it worked only back then, and with the best team ever plus Messi in his prime?
I have said numerous times, after 2012:
Spain couldn't win any NT trophy anymore with Pep's style.
Pep couldn't win anything after 2012, when teams figured out how to kill him on counters and since he didn't have Messi.
Real actually played Pep's style, but added some defense, some muscles, some headers and counters.
Barca in 2015 also played Pep's style, but with less possession, less crazy suicidal attacking tactics, with Rakitic-Busi instead of too light midfielders, and with counters.
So, once again, can anyone find ONE team who won a CL, World cup, Euros after 2012, playing Pep's style?
On the other hand, all Euro's, WC'c, Copa America and CL winners since then, in 90% of cases played more pragmatic, cautious, counter attacking football, without too risky defense (like Pep).
And mayority of winners had more height and muscles in midfield and attack than Pep's teams, and all winners from the past few years had tall, strong CFs who could offer some plan B with headers and corners.
Unlike Aguero, Jesus and Pep's guys.
Real conceded 9 goals in 7 KO matches in 2018.
Real conceded 8 goals in 7 KO matches in 2017.
Real conceded 3 goals in 7 KO matches in 2016.
Barca conceded 6 goals in 7 KO matches in 2015.
Pep conceded:
6 goals in 4 matches in 2019.
7 goals in 4 matches in 2018.
6 goals in 2 matches in 2017.
Real conceded 20 goals in 21 KO matches in 2016, 2017, 2018:
= that is 0,95 goals conceded per match
Barca conceded 0,86 goals in 2015.
Pep conceded 1,9 goals per match in the last 3 years, and he didn't even play against big European teams.
So, imo, people here are constantly looking at football only in one direction=attacking direction.
This player can pass, this player can create, this player can move well off the ball.
But nobody cares about tackles, marking, defensive headers, defensive corners etc.
This is why people are posting crazy ideas: Arthur-Frenkie-Puig/Alena midfield and why players like Rakitic, Vidal, Paulinho, or even Rabiot are not getting too much love.
Rakitic, Casemiro and similar players are a reason why Barca and Real are conceding less than 1 goal per KO match in a CL.
And Pep's technical, light, mobile midfielders are a reason why his teams play nice, but why is he constantly conceding 4-5-6 goals against any semi decent opponent.
Aguero, Sterling, Bernardo, a former CAM De Bruyne, David Silva and Gundogan.
That is basically: 5 attacking midfielders/or forwards and one defensive guy in Gundogan, who is also far from a physical and a defensive beast.
I mean, it is really not a surprise why Pep's teams are leaking goals like crazy in European KO matches against better teams.
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Vilarrubi
New member
Agree, combination of technical and physical is needed.
I think Pep set up wrong in both ties.. tried to play conservative in the first leg and failed. Then probably should have played Fernandinho in the 2nd leg to prevent them scoring 3.
Leo_Messi
New member
Pep's cowardice costed him big time in the first leg. This is all on him.
Having said that Man City is not really as great individually as many people want it to appear like. Tottenham's ideal 11 is not too far way from Man City's ideal 11 and I would say that Spurs are stronger on quite a few fronts. It is telling that Agüero, 8 years (!) after his arrival, remains City's best goalscorer and biggest individual talent.
Guys like Mahrez, Gabriel Jesus, 33 year old and way past it David Silva, 33 year old and way past it Kompany etc. Left backs such as the joke Delph etc. Average CB's such as Otamendi (a mistake waiting to happen) etc. Numerous young players who are not yet the finished product in Bernardo Silva, Sané etc.
KDB in and out of the team (their second most important player if not their most important player) due to injuries etc.
In reality Man City is another PSG. Small-club mentality, non-existent fanbase, 1 CL-semifinal appearance in their entire history, even less European history than PSG, zero CL wins in 11 years since their takeover etc. Somehow them being proclaimed as the favorites or among the favorites each season for the past many seasons is a bit of a joke really.
Having said that yesterday's match was a coin toss. Could have gone either way but personally happy that Man City lost. Thus no quadruple, no treble, Ajax having an easier way to a potential CL final and an easier opponent for us on paper at least in Spurs.
Having said that Man City is not really as great individually as many people want it to appear like. Tottenham's ideal 11 is not too far way from Man City's ideal 11 and I would say that Spurs are stronger on quite a few fronts. It is telling that Agüero, 8 years (!) after his arrival, remains City's best goalscorer and biggest individual talent.
Guys like Mahrez, Gabriel Jesus, 33 year old and way past it David Silva, 33 year old and way past it Kompany etc. Left backs such as the joke Delph etc. Average CB's such as Otamendi (a mistake waiting to happen) etc. Numerous young players who are not yet the finished product in Bernardo Silva, Sané etc.
KDB in and out of the team (their second most important player if not their most important player) due to injuries etc.
In reality Man City is another PSG. Small-club mentality, non-existent fanbase, 1 CL-semifinal appearance in their entire history, even less European history than PSG, zero CL wins in 11 years since their takeover etc. Somehow them being proclaimed as the favorites or among the favorites each season for the past many seasons is a bit of a joke really.
Having said that yesterday's match was a coin toss. Could have gone either way but personally happy that Man City lost. Thus no quadruple, no treble, Ajax having an easier way to a potential CL final and an easier opponent for us on paper at least in Spurs.
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Messigician
Senior Member
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ini4ever
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