Ousmane Dembélé

[messi2140]

You guys now act as if every player improves and clicks perfectly under Pep.

Zlatan played better before and after Barca than at Barca during Pep.
Afellay played better at Psv than at Barca, a huge talent.
Hleb was awesome at Arsenal. Sucked under Pep.
Alexis was huge potential at Udinese, meh at Barca. Better at Arsenal than at Barca.
Yaya Toure was a better player at Man City than at Barca.
Pep didn't manage to improve Chyngrinsky, Caceres, Bojan, Gio Dos Santos etc.

So, you guys lately act as if:
Pep would turn Dembele, Malcom, Semedo, everyone into world class players.
All flaws by all players would be cured by Pep.

Then, how come that there were lots of players who:
1. Stagnated during Pep
2. Or turned to worse players during Pep
3. Or were horrible picks, similar to Coutinho

Pep will make wonders with some guys like Xavi, Busi, Iniesta, Pedro, Sterling, KDB.
And he will do nothing or even ruin others like Zlatan, Hleb, Yaya, Afellay, Gio Ds, Alexis.

EV isn't improving youngsters.
But also, it is not true that every single player is improving under Pep.

Pep will improve you:
1. If you have a potential
2. If you fit perfectly to his stylw
3. If he likes you

If he doesn't like you for some reason or if you are not a perfect fit for his ideas=man, you are dead.

And this is why so many people here just can't take you seriously and call you out. Everytime someone here is excited for a young player that plays in ligue 1 for example (Malcom comes to mind) , you come and "argue" that the league which they came from is weak and that it doesn't mean much that they performed well .

But now that the argument of weak leagues is not in your favour , like the bullshit artist you are , that suddenly doesnt mean anything and Afellay is some elite talent that was killing it in the Eredivisie.

 

[BBZ8800]

And this is why so many people here just can't take you seriously and call you out. Everytime someone here is excited for a young player that plays in ligue 1 for example (Malcom comes to mind) , you come and "argue" that the league which they came from is weak and that it doesn't mean much that they performed well .

But now that the argument of weak leagues is not in your favour , like the bullshit artist you are , that suddenly doesnt mean anything and Afellay is some elite talent that was killing it in the Eredivisie.

Cool story about me.
Can you add anything meaningful to explain why a lot of young and older/proven players failed under Pep?

Please don't reply that I had faith in Coutinho as a counterargument.

Because a current urban myth is how all players are improving under Pep and Klopp.

 

[BBZ8800]

It doesn t take a genius to realize this, you are stating the obvious.

It s about probabilities. And there is a high probability that Dembele would play better under Pep, than under Valverde. Why? Because Pep is a much better coach.

Also, Zlatan was fine until Pep moved him to a wing. Yaya was also fine, but he preferred Busquets. Alexis was never comfortable playing control technical football, which is why PL was more suited to his stile.
I m not sure why you think Afellay was some sort of great talent and it s perfectly logical that he played better in dutch league. Bojan, GDS, Caceres, Chyngrinsky, ...none of those guys made a big splash at any point in their careers. It s not just about a coach.

Of course that I agree that there is a higher chance that a player will improve under Pep.
But, he is the best coach in the last 20 years.

Sometimes I feel that it is: either you will be coached by Pep or you won't improve.

About your last paragraph, true.
Those players never made it big, so maybe Pep couldn't do anything with them.

What if:
Dembele will end at Everton in 4 years?
If Malcom will stay at Russia or return to Brasil?
Denis, no comment.
Gomes, no comment.
Paco, no comment.
What if Alena and Puig will end at Girona in 5 years?

My point:
EV sucks.
But what if this is the crappiest bunch of players bought since 2000, except Frenkie?

The only other player with hope is Arthur, but if my estimations are true, his career could also take a downward spiral.

Basically, the only true failure is Coutinho.
But we had similar failures in Overmars, Hleb, Mendieta.

People often say: nobody improved under EV.
Well, half of our team is 32 and are declining each season like Messi, Suarez, Busi, Raki, Iniesta, Pique.
Alba is oldish also.
Roberto is a crappy Cm turned into a Rb.

Lenglet is ok.
Mats is good.
Umtiti is injured.

And then you have a bunch of a worst transfers since 2001 in Dumbele, Malcom, Denis, Gomes, Paco, Semedo.

Tbh, who could have improved?
The only failure is Coutinho.
And the only players with potential are Frenkie and Arthur.

I am not sure that even Pep would improve our grannies or Dumbele, Denis and Malcom.

 

[messi2140]

Cool story about me.
Can you add anything meaningful to explain why a lot of young and older/proven players failed under Pep?

Please don't reply that I had faith in Coutinho as a counterargument.

Because a current urban myth is how all players are improving under Pep and Klopp.

Nope classic BBZ , you just double down and write some more bullshit.

-Now it seems that alot of players failed under Pep

- And that people on BF somehow think that all players will improve under Pep and Klopp.

 

[Alik]

You guys now act as if every player improves and clicks perfectly under Pep.

He didn't say Pep. He said Klopp or any world class manager.

Your last 3 points about Pep are true. I also don't think Dembele is his type of player (although he would still be much better with him than Valverde).

That being said, now back to you, why are you always acting as if no manager can do better than Valverde? When all players played better with other manager before, during or after Valverde.

 

[te amo barca]

Of course that I agree that there is a higher chance that a player will improve under Pep.
But, he is the best coach in the last 20 years.

Sometimes I feel that it is: either you will be coached by Pep or you won't improve.

About your last paragraph, true.
Those players never made it big, so maybe Pep couldn't do anything with them.

What if:
Dembele will end at Everton in 4 years?
If Malcom will stay at Russia or return to Brasil?
Denis, no comment.
Gomes, no comment.
Paco, no comment.
What if Alena and Puig will end at Girona in 5 years?

My point:
EV sucks.
But what if this is the crappiest bunch of players bought since 2000, except Frenkie?

The only other player with hope is Arthur, but if my estimations are true, his career could also take a downward spiral.

Basically, the only true failure is Coutinho.
But we had similar failures in Overmars, Hleb, Mendieta.

People often say: nobody improved under EV.
Well, half of our team is 32 and are declining each season like Messi, Suarez, Busi, Raki, Iniesta, Pique.
Alba is oldish also.
Roberto is a crappy Cm turned into a Rb.

Lenglet is ok.
Mats is good.
Umtiti is injured.

And then you have a bunch of a worst transfers since 2001 in Dumbele, Malcom, Denis, Gomes, Paco, Semedo.

Tbh, who could have improved?
The only failure is Coutinho.
And the only players with potential are Frenkie and Arthur.

I am not sure that even Pep would improve our grannies or Dumbele, Denis and Malcom.

I am not sure I understood your point, but are you implying that Paco is a crap player? He is literally the second best center forward in Bundesliga after Lewandowski right now, scoring game after game in a proper system that suits his strengths.

 

[Vilarrubi]

Our two most expensive signings have got worse under Valverde... Dembele looking like he’s never played football before and Coutinho just gone to Bayern.

No ones saying Pep improves every player but this 100% wouldn’t have happened under him.

 

[BBZ8800]

That being said, now back to you, why are you always acting as if no manager can do better than Valverde? When all players played better with other manager before, during or after Valverde.

EV is the 13th coach whom I am watching at Barca.
Imo, hate towards him is similar like hate towards Raki.

They are bad, but a hate is multiplied 100 times.

And again, my personal opinion after watching Barca since 94', is that when you sum: age of core players, motivation, leadership and quality of young players=this is the crappiest Barca ever except 2001-2004.

A souless, drained, old team.
Paired with horrible and overhyped youngsters.

You say that other players played better.
Again, how can 32 years old Suarez play better than his 27 years old self?
Or Busi, Raki, Pique?

Players who could have improved are:
Lenglet, he is ok
Roberto, can he improve at all since he is average at everything?
Umtiti, injured.
Rafinha, average and injured.
Mats, on a World class level already.

About other youngsters, imo, they are truly horrible and I don't believe that any of them will have a good career anywhere.

Now, imagine Pep here.
He would sell old grannies.
Dembele would still suck.
Pep would never pick a player of Malcom's level.
Denis, Gomes, Paco, the same.
Semedo, braindead in attack.
Alena and Puig, meh.
Maybe he could do somerhing with those two though.

Basically, imo, Pep would maybe improve slightly Alena, Puig and Arthur.
All other players are grannies or lost causes.

And yet, people act as if we have 20 players with potential and that a coach has ruined all of them.

We have 4 players with potential at max.
If we are generous towards Alena and Puig.
Pep had similar La Masia players who ended meh.

So I disagree:
1. You act as if EV is the worst coach on Earth
2. And as if we have a good team filled with young Iniestas

Bar Messi, this is the most horrible, overhyped, souless team in 16 years.
Not to mention that this is the oldest team in a modern Barca's history.

A team of old horses and truly, truly horrible youngsters.

 

[BBZ8800]

I am not sure I understood your point, but are you implying that Paco is a crap player? He is literally the second best center forward in Bundesliga after Lewandowski right now, scoring game after game in a proper system that suits his strengths.

Paco at Barca and Paco at Dortmund is the same as Zlatan/Alexis/Yaya at Barca and after Barca.

How is it then EV's fault, yet Zlatan, Alexis and Yaya aren't Pep's fault?

 

[Laplacian]

Our two most expensive signings have got worse under Valverde... Dembele looking like he’s never played football before and Coutinho just gone to Bayern.

No ones saying Pep improves every player but this 100% wouldn’t have happened under him.

You sure? All of the things Dembele struggles with are either magnified or are considered required skills for Pep's teams (Barcelona, City, and Barcelona). Dembele's issues with passing isn't a recent thing, he showed it in Rennes and Dortmund. Yes he has the vision and creativity to pull of a defense breaking ball, but he struggles to participate in quick short passing. Yes he has the ability to dribble 10 men in a single game, but he struggles to retain the ball against aggressive pressing and in tight spaces or beat his man on a consistent basis. Yes he has incredible vision, but he considerably lacks the decision making to utilise it. Yes his acceleration is incredible, but he lacks the tactical understanding to utilise it.

If you think a winger with atrociously inconsistent ball control, nil decision making, struggles with 1 on 1 take ons, and atrocious short passing ability would last more than half a season under Pep, then you're more delusional than Valverde fanboys. The guy would transfer list after a debut match.

Good coaches can improve players yes, but they don't have some magical recipe to transform players into complete different types. Dembele would need to be a completely different type of winger to work under City. Plus don't you guys say he struggles with methodical slow passing games? Hello, that's literally what all of Pep's teams do to control games and break down teams lol.

 

[BBZ8800]

Our two most expensive signings have got worse under Valverde... Dembele looking like he’s never played football before and Coutinho just gone to Bayern.

No ones saying Pep improves every player but this 100% wouldn’t have happened under him.

We had 10s of Dembeles in our history.
Guys who were paid 100m in the old market.

Gerard Lopez
Geovanni Deiberson
Saviola
Quaresma
Even Alexis

Coutinho, we had tons of similar high profile failures: Mendieta, Overmars, Litmanen, Ronald De Boer, Zambrotta, Fabregas, even Gudjohnsen or Song.

What if it will turn that Dembele will look as if he never played football in all clubs after Barca?
Will it be EV's fault then?

Regarding Dortmund: he was still raw, horrible passing.
But he had space, no senior stars in a team, no pressure, and he had a free attacking role.

When you come to Barca, you need to learn, adjust and sacrifice.

Dembele can't learn.
So, that's it about your question.

Cou, Pep had similar high profile failures in Fab and Hleb (or Zlatan).
Is Pep a bad coach due to those two, or they were just bad fits?

 

[Vilarrubi]

You sure? All of the things Dembele struggles with are either magnified or are considered required skills for Pep's teams (Barcelona, City, and Barcelona). Dembele's issues with passing isn't a recent thing, he showed it in Rennes and Dortmund. Yes he has the vision and creativity to pull of a defense breaking ball, but he struggles to participate in quick short passing. Yes he has the ability to dribble 10 men in a single game, but he struggles to retain the ball against aggressive pressing and in tight spaces or beat his man on a consistent basis. Yes he has incredible vision, but he considerably lacks the decision making to utilise it. Yes his acceleration is incredible, but he lacks the tactical understanding to utilise it.

If you think a winger with atrociously inconsistent ball control, nil decision making, struggles with 1 on 1 take ons, and atrocious short passing ability would last more than half a season under Pep, then you're more delusional than Valverde fanboys. The guy would transfer list after a debut match.

Good coaches can improve players yes, but they don't have some magical recipe to transform players into complete different types. Dembele would need to be a completely different type of winger to work under City. Plus don't you guys say he struggles with methodical slow passing games? Hello, that's literally what all of Pep's teams do to control games and break down teams lol.

No one knows for sure, I’m guessing and you’re guessing. Never suggested Pep would make Dembele into a world class player, you’re putting words in my mouth. All I know is Peps record with improving players is higher than most coaches.

 

[messi2140]

Those are just a few players that failed for Pep compared to the amount that played to their or above their ability and that's just normal. Whats not fucking normal is when literally every fucking player besides maybe 3 are playing noticeably worse. Can't wait for your next hot take BBZ.

 

[Devils]

List of players who have CLEARLY improved at City under Pep:

-Kyle Walker
-Sterling
-Gundogan
-Aguero
-Zinchecko
-Laporte
-Kevin De Bruyne
-Leroy Sane
-Bernado Silva
-Fernandinho
-Ederson
-Otamendi
-Phil Foden
-Riyad Mahrez
-Gabriel Jesus (very limited player but still improved under Pep)

Flops:
-Nolito
-Mendy (so far)
-Danilo
-John Stones (so far)

----

Players improved under Valverde:

-Lenglet (?)
-Alba
-MAtS

Flops:

-Malcom
-Coutinho
-Paulinho
-Semedo (so far)
-Deulofeu
-Mina
-Dembele (so far)
-Murillo
-KPB
-Alena (so far)

 

[Judoman]

My point:
EV sucks.
But what if this is the crappiest bunch of players bought since 2000, except Frenkie?

You should have ended with the first sentence. EV sucks.

There is no way that a club like Barca, or any other club for that matter, will have a 100% hit rate with new players. I can only imagine how hard it must be coming here as a young talent, where
you are expected to perform on a WC level each week. Probability that a player will fail here is high, (much)higher than opposite option. Adding other factors like crappy coach and the probability of a player will fail gets even higher.

There is a chance that none of the players you mentioned will succeed, except Paco, who is doing excellent and i m not sure why you included him in this. He s been doing excellent since he left Barca. Coincidence?
But this will always be true in Barca. There will always be more players that don t make it, than the ones who become regular starters.

Having Valverde as a coach for 3 seasons doesn t help increasing those odds. I think keeping him for the 3rd season was a huge mistake and a sign that the board is not planning for the future at all. Valverde
is not the guy who s gona change the Messi dependencia to a more modern, team oriented system. The young guys will be the first victims of this mistake and you will have more material for your rants. I wouldn t exclude DJ from "they failed" crowd. Couple of losses more and Valverde will get back to the trusting Raki-Busi midfield.