Mateo Kovačić

[Beast]

James & Isco are AM's /LM / RM's ...they do not compete with Modric-Casemiro-Kroos & Kova... sure Isco can fill in in case of injuries but we waste him in that position


Pogba for sure is not a bad signing... in terms of talent he has them.. in terms of managing them.. the answer is two words = MINO RAIOLA

Real will never sign Pogba as long as Mino is his agent as simple as that... nor any player Mino represent... he is simply a high maintenance agent who makes his players the same thing and his recent Super Mario failure is there.. as well as his previous clashes with your board for Zlatan

 

[BBZ8800]

Yeah let's all laugh about our arch rivals continuing to sign young talent at fair prices and still fail to win. (1 CL in 12 years, 1 La Liga in 7 years)

Let's continue laughing when we buy an overhyped Serie A "phenom" for 80mil and pay him 12mil net wages and keep on winning.

Indeed so funny!

Part of the answer why Real was so crap in La liga and in a CL in the last 10 Seasons is=we had Messi.

When Messi will be gone, Real's transfers won't be as funny and as failed as today.
When someone has Messi, it changes the whole world and all transfers and planning in the whole football world.

Again, the world will be much uglier place for our fans when Messi will be gone.

++ About Pogba, I am personally hoping that he will have bad/average Season this year, because everything indicates that we will try to sign him in the next summer (no one is available anymore).

So, I am hoping that he will be more exposed this season and that we will maybe give up on him till then.

 

[Chainsaw]

Part of the answer why Real was so crap in La liga and in a CL in the last 10 Seasons is=we had Messi.

When Messi will be gone, Real's transfers won't be as funny and as failed as today.
When someone has Messi, it changes the whole world and all transfers and planning in the whole football world.

Again, the world be way less funnier place for our fans when Messi will be gone.

++ About Pogba, I am personally hoping that he will have bad/average Season this year, because everything indicates that we will try to sign him in the next summer.

So, I am hoping that he will be more exposed this season and that we will maybe give up on him till then.

Messi is not the reason Real Madrid reached the CL final and winning it 'once' in 12 years. Did Barca win La Liga last season too? Where did Real Madrid end up in the league when Messi couldn't deliver? 3rd, behind their city rivals and Barca.

Both Real and Barca made several bad signings over the years. Just because Real make fancy signings who shine once in a while people tend to believe Barca's signings of Rakitics and Mathieus are worse.

Messi is 28. He won't be gone anytime soon and till then I'm not sure many of the current stars of Real and Barca will still be here for us to make a judge of them. Real Madrid was never known as a very patient club after all. Don't expect the same fancy signings will be there after Messi is gone. Sure as hell they keep buying and selling big names each season. That's been the recipe of Florentino Perez for a long time.

 

[Beast]

Messi is not the reason Real Madrid reached the CL final and winning it 'once' in 12 years. Did Barca win La Liga last season too? Where did Real Madrid end up in the league when Messi couldn't deliver? 3rd, behind their city rivals and Barca.

Both Real and Barca made several bad signings over the years. Just because Real make fancy signings who shine once in a while people tend to believe Barca's signings of Rakitics and Mathieus are worse.

Messi is 28. He won't be gone anytime soon and till then I'm not sure many of the current stars of Real and Barca will still be here for us to make a judge of them. Real Madrid was never known as a very patient club after all. Don't expect the same fancy signings will be there after Messi is gone. Sure as hell they keep buying and selling big names each season. That's been the recipe of Florentino Perez for a long time.

We lost our mental strength for a long time .. after Hierro left there was no leadership and for all the years i've watched football i would tell you even if you have the best of the best in the world but without a leader you will not achieve similar success except on rare occasions

add to that
1- instability (trigger happy firing managers (Perez first stint , Capello dismissal after winning the league )
2- bad signing (Gravesen a DM , injury prone Woodgate as a CB etc )
3- incompatible signing (players failing to adapt .. Huntelaar - Michael Owen , Cassano etc + signings we don't need at one time we had 5 good strikers in the club )
4- Bad managers (from Luxemburgo to Quieroz to fairy Schuster )

there is plenty of reasons and add to that you had your best patch in history from Dinho to Messi
however for all Perez massive failure since 2002 after the 9th went to his head i have to say the current Perez after the first year is way better..sure he wanted to cause a threat to Barca (it is how it is between us ) so bringing Kaka (bad signing ) & Ronaldo (Calderon signing ) at the same year but since than you will hardly see any player above the age of 25.. that' earmarked his second stint ..most players brought before they are world beaters and sold at a profit
for all the stick we gave Perez the second era had stability (Mourinho 3 years , Carlo 2 years ) and future signings not ready made players .. the fact that apart from Bale (just for the massive fee ) you won't find any galactico signing like before... there is spending on all the positions unlike before when it was just attacking players

 

[serghei]

Messi is 28. He won't be gone anytime soon and till then I'm not sure many of the current stars of Real and Barca will still be here for us to make a judge of them. Real Madrid was never known as a very patient club after all. Don't expect the same fancy signings will be there after Messi is gone. Sure as hell they keep buying and selling big names each season. That's been the recipe of Florentino Perez for a long time.

Exactly. People said the same thing about Ozil. Man, Madrid has a great young player and they're set for 6-7 years with him. Three years later they sold him. Same thing with Higuain. They sold him at 25. Same thing with Di Maria. Solid him at 26. Madrid sells players as much as they buy them. And often they sell at the perfect age of 25-26, even younger (Ozil - 24).

 

[Beast]

Exactly. People said the same thing about Ozil. Man, Madrid has a great young player and they're set for 6-7 years with him. Three years later they sold him. Same thing with Higuain. They sold him at 25. Same thing with Di Maria. Solid him at 26.

And name one of them who had a better career outside Real ? NONE...

We sold at the right time for massive profit & never had regrets footballing wise even last year without Di Maria it was the lack of rotation & Modric injury that affected us after the rampage of the first half ... so i don't know what your post prove ? except shrewd move

 

[dakt]

FFS, fucking RM, reading about it the whole f... day. If he clicks there, we'll watch art in motion, but this time in white. FFS.

 

[serghei]

[MENTION=813]Beast[/MENTION]

The post proves exactly what it says. That several young players that looked like the future of Real Madrid for a long time had an early exit and left the club while being among the best in the world in their position at that time. And this happened just a couple of years back.

 

[Beast]

[MENTION=813]Beast[/MENTION]

The post proves exactly what it says. That several young players that looked like the future of Real Madrid for a long time had an early exit and left Real Madrid while being among the best in the world in their position at that time.

And how their careers turned out proved that selling them was right... since Robben/Sneijder there wasn't a single player sold outright (without an option to buy back ) who had a better career than his Real Madrid
sometimes the club directors see an attitude or a medical condition that prevent them from evolving or maintaining their form for example Ozil night life & Higuain back injury.. and all of them brought massive profit to what was actually paid.. they did their job at the time and the club always had a better player in their position when we sold them

 

[serghei]

And how their careers turned out proved that selling them was right... since Robben/Sneijder there wasn't a single player sold outright (without an option to buy back ) who had a better career than his Real Madrid
sometimes the club directors see an attitude or a medical condition that prevent them from evolving or maintaining their form for example Ozil night life & Higuain back injury.. and all of them brought massive profit to what was actually paid.. they did their job at the time and the club always had a better player in their position when we sold them

I didn't say the club made a mistake by selling them, so I don't see the point with you telling me they never had a better career once they moved from Madrid. What does that even mean anyway? If we sell Neymar to Arsenal, he won't have a better career outside Barcelona, because he goes to a weaker team. If you had sold Ozil/Di Maria to Barcelona or Bayern, he might have very well had a better career outside Real Madrid.

 

[Ghostmaster]

You know Pogba is a bad signing when even RM fans are saying he's too expensive and overrated. But hey, whatever.

They are just salty because they can't afford him and we can

 

[BBZ8800]

Messi is not the reason Real Madrid reached the CL final and winning it 'once' in 12 years. Did Barca win La Liga last season too? Where did Real Madrid end up in the league when Messi couldn't deliver? 3rd, behind their city rivals and Barca.

Both Real and Barca made several bad signings over the years. Just because Real make fancy signings who shine once in a while people tend to believe Barca's signings of Rakitics and Mathieus are worse.

Messi is 28. He won't be gone anytime soon and till then I'm not sure many of the current stars of Real and Barca will still be here for us to make a judge of them. Real Madrid was never known as a very patient club after all. Don't expect the same fancy signings will be there after Messi is gone. Sure as hell they keep buying and selling big names each season. That's been the recipe of Florentino Perez for a long time.

We have never won as many La liga titles in our history (in some period) as in the last 10-12 years.
Since Messi emerged.

Some romantics will say: it is not (only) because of Messi. Our club in general has reached a higher level, our La Masia is now working better than in the past.

Well, yes, some improvements have been done.
But Messi is 80% or more of our success in the last 10 years.

I don't want to be rude towards other players, but Raki-Iniesta-Suarez-Neymar alone, without Messi, would be just a good old, average Barca's team, like any team from 90s or 00s before Messi.
= a team with a few superstars, with awesome technique and midfielders, but a team which is not better then other top 4-5 european teams.
= a team which is as equally as strong as Real, Bayern or other random top teams in a certain era

Plus, I am not saying anything about whether Real will buy expensive players etc.
My point is:
= Real wasn't that bad during the last 10 years
= Real didn't make more bad signings than in other eras
= our transfers weren't much better than in 90s or in early 00's
= Real isn't ruining players and Real's owners aren't that dumb

The answer on almost every answer is=we had Messi.

Again, I don't want to be disrespectful towards our other players, but just imagine that Real signed young boy Messi and that everything what Messi has done with us, would have been done in Real's jersey.

Lol, we would have 1-2 La Liga's titles in the last 10 Seasons.
We would have 0 or max 1 CL title by some random luck.
And Real would have 14, 15 or 16 CL trophies till now...
We would have 3 in total...

And nobody in the world would be talking about Barca, the best team ever, about trebles, sixtuples, and nobody would speak about famous/golden La Masia, because if Real would have won all La ligas and CLs in the last 10 years, nobody would care about Pique, Fabregas and Valdes, since they would play in some 2nd tier European team.

You said that you are a Barca's fan since early 90s, so you probably remember the pain of being a Barca's fan BEFORE Messi arrived.
So, I personally don't like too harsh posts towards Real, Perez, or our opponents.
We had Messi, guys. The one and only. The guy who ALWAYS makes a difference (or almost always), no matter what the opponents do/buy.

When Messi will be gone, we will soon turn into a current Real Madrid, with no plan, bad transfers, a team with 100s of Millions of worth in players, who is constantly losing in CL semis etc.

So, whatever you judge from the last 10 years:
-- La Masia
-- Pep
-- Lucho
-- Real, Perez
= never forget to put Messi in maths

Messi changed the world and Barca's history.

 

[Chainsaw]

We have never won as many La liga titles in our history (in some period) as in the last 10-12 years.
Since Messi emerged.

Some romantics will say: it is not (only) because of Messi. Our club in general has reached a higher level, our La Masia is now working better than in the past.

Well, yes, some improvements have been done.
But Messi is 80% or more of our success in the last 10 years.

I don't want to be rude towards other players, but Raki-Iniesta-Suarez-Neymar alone, without Messi, would be just a good old, average Barca's team, like any team from 90s or 00s before Messi.
= a team with a few superstars, with awesome technique and midfielders, but a team which is not better then other top 4-5 european teams.
= a team which is as equally as strong as Real, Bayern or other random top teams in a certain era

Plus, I am not saying anything about whether Real will buy expensive players etc.
My point is:
= Real wasn't that bad during the last 10 years
= Real didn't make more bad signings than in other eras
= our transfers weren't much better than in 90s or in early 00's
= Real isn't ruining players and Real's owners aren't that dumb

The answer on almost every answer is=we had Messi.

Again, I don't want to be disrespectful towards our other players, but just imagine that Real signed young boy Messi and that everything what Messi has done with us, would have been done in Real's jersey.

Lol, we would have 1-2 La Liga's titles in the last 10 Seasons.
We would have 0 or max 1 CL title by some random luck.
And Real would have 14, 15 or 16 CL trophies till now...
We would have 3 in total...

And nobody in the world would be talking about Barca, the best team ever, about trebles, sixtuples, and nobody would speak about famous/golden La Masia, because if Real would have won all La ligas and CLs in the last 10 years, nobody would care about Pique, Fabregas and Valdes, since they would play in some 2nd tier European team.

You said that you are a Barca's fan since early 90s, so you probably remember the pain of being a Barca's fan BEFORE Messi arrived.
So, I personally don't like too harsh posts towards Real, Perez, or our opponents.
We had Messi, guys. The one and only. The guy who ALWAYS makes a difference (or almost always), no matter what the opponents do/buy.

When Messi will be gone, we will soon turn into a current Real Madrid, with no plan, bad transfers, a team with 100s of Millions of worth in players, who is constantly losing in CL semis etc.

So, whatever you judge from the last 10 years:
-- La Masia
-- Pep
-- Lucho
-- Real, Perez
= never forget to put Messi in maths

Messi changed the world and Barca's history.

I don't want to deny the Messi influence on the recent success but your assumed numbers are exaggerating. Messi didn't start this golden era. It was already started when Ronaldinho and Laporta arrived. Messi just got there at the precise moment and led it to an even more glorious era. Whether it was coincidental or not the golden generation coming out of La Masia synchronized with it also helped Messi to be at the right place and the right time, so it's more than just having "Messi alone". By your logic Argentina should also be sweeping titles left and right now because they have Messi too, but they are not. So your argument of "Messi is 80% or more of our success in the last 10 years" is pure oversimplification of yours and definitely not the whole truth.

The bigger reason why the club has reached this momentum IMO is the stability they have tried to build within their system after so many years of hasty and mindless spending. They got many of their crucial signings right, they have found the right manager to work along with their own plan and continue to work on those specific goals. They recognized and developed the right talents within La Masia. It's a very collective effort that got us where we are now. Your argument of "Messi is 80% or MORE of our success" is quite disrespectful for all the efforts many people has done over the years inside the club to help the club reach where they are now.

Yeah I've been there before and I've seen the mess in the past. It wasn't as "painful" as you say tho. More like anger from watching the chaos inside the house. Watching all these new faces that come and go with insane amounts (at that time!) without a clear plan as why they are here and then they are not anymore. Without the collective effort the club has done over the years even this Messi couldn't deliver as good as he's done in the past years.

 

[SEvolution]

So, basically Xavi-Iniesta, Deco-Dinho, Puyi-Marquez-Pique-Abi, Henry-Eto'o were shit and would have been playing with 2nd or 3rd tier clubs around Europe.

All hail messi who got spain back to back Euros and their first WC too. It's just because of Messi yo!

 

[BBZ8800]

I don't want to deny the Messi influence on the recent success but your assumed numbers are exaggerating. Messi didn't start this golden era. It was already started when Ronaldinho and Laporta arrived. Messi just got there at the precise moment and led it to an even more glorious era. Whether it was coincidental or not the golden generation coming out of La Masia synchronized with it also helped Messi to be at the right place and the right time, so it's more than just having "Messi alone". By your logic Argentina should also be sweeping titles left and right now because they have Messi too, but they are not. So your argument of "Messi is 80% or more of our success in the last 10 years" is pure oversimplification of yours and definitely not the whole truth.

The bigger reason why the club has reached this momentum IMO is the stability they have tried to build within their system after so many years of hasty and mindless spending. They got many of their crucial signings right, they have found the right manager to work along with their own plan and continue to work on those specific goals. They recognized and developed the right talents within La Masia. It's a very collective effort that got us where we are now. Your argument of "Messi is 80% or MORE of our success" is quite disrespectful for all the efforts many people has done over the years inside the club to help the club reach where they are now.

Yeah I've been there before and I've seen the mess in the past. It wasn't as "painful" as you say tho. More like anger from watching the chaos inside the house. Watching all these new faces that come and go with insane amounts (at that time!) without a clear plan as why they are here and then they are not anymore. Without the collective effort the club has done over the years even this Messi couldn't deliver as good as he's done in the past years.

We had only one successful season with Ronnie and Etoo (in CL terms).
So, it wasn't a start of an era, but more like a random season when one out of top 4-5 teams win a CL.

The same as sometimes Man. Utd, Bayern, Chelsea, Juve or any (top) team eventually wins a CL once in 10-20 years.

Comparison Barca vs Argentina, well.
Barca (without Messi) was always one out of 4-5 top teams who are equal.
-- in numbers, let's say it this way:
-- strength of Barca without Messi=99%
-- strength of Real without Messi=99%
-- strength of Bayern without Messi=99%
-- strength of Chelsea without Messi=90%
= Barca with Messi=150%

Now, in normal terms, each of these teams have equal chances.
So, sometimes Barca will win a CL, sometimes Real, sometimes Bayern, sometimes a team live Liverpool, Arsenal, Man. Utd, Porto etc.

But when you get a player like Messi on a lottery and when you add him to a team which is already EQUALLY as strong as any top 4-5 team in the world, well, then you get Barca from the last 10 years with trebles, sixtuples, 120 goals scored per Season, pure magic on the field, and 3-4-5 CL titles in 10 years.

Without Messi, I am repeating, we will just be a random top team who will be 50:50 against any random top opponent.
We won't be favorites against any bigger team.

Now, Argentina.
The difference between Barca without Messi and Argentina without Messi is that Argentina without Messi is not in top 4-5 teams in the world.
And Argentina WITHOUT Messi is surely not as equally as strong as Spain, Italy, Brasil or other top teams from the last decade.

So, you see, when you add Messi to already world class Barca=you get a team out of this world.
When you add Messi to pretty average Argentina's team=you get a world class team.

But in numbers:
-- Spain 99%
-- Germany 99%
-- Italy 95%
-- Brasil 90%
-- Argentina without Messi 70-80%

-- so, you see, when you add Messi to that team, Argentina is WITH Messi equally as strong as other top teams, or honestly, STILL WEAKER than other teams.

So, someone could reply now: so, you see that one player alone can't do wonders (Messi in Argentina).
True, to some extent.

But Messi, on a club level, is the only player in a recent football's history, who was able to turn an already world class club (per-Messi Barca) into a team out of this world.
My point is, there isn't OTHER single player in the world whom we can buy and for whom we could say: now with this guy, we will be 2 levels stronger than any opponent (I am talking about era before Messi or after Messi).
So, when Messi will be gone, we won't be able to say: buy Neymar or Hazard and you will be the best team in a world by far.
Lol, that won't happen ever again.
Some players will strengthen our team, but none player ever will strengthen our team as much as Messi did.

Again, I am willing to bet with anyone what will happen in 3-4-5 years when Messi will be gone.

Imo, people are giving too much credit to La Masia, our board etc.
About La Masia, I replied already, if we didn't have Messi, who knows if Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol and other guys would won any other CL than a 2006's title.
You will say that Messi was lucky to play with golden-La Masia generation. True, to some extent, everything clicked perfectly.

But also, if we hadn't Messi, then nobody would hail our golden La Masia's generation.
They would have 1 CL title, 2-3 La Liga titles, and zero trebles, sextuples etc.

Without the collective effort the club has done over the years even this Messi couldn't deliver as good as he's done in the past years.

Ok, but.
If today we have:
= Messi+good work by the board+golden La Masia's generation=current team
But, imo, if you remove some of the factors from the maths, like:
= good board+La Masia but WITHOUT Messi=we would be a crap
= Messi+good board but WITHOUT La Masia=we wouldn't be as good as today, but we would still won 2-3 CL titles in 10 years
= Messi+La Masia WITHOUT a good board=we wouldn't be as good as today, but we would again won at least 2-3 CL titles in 10 years on the wings from a pure quality from Messi and La Masia players

So, yes, you need all factors to create a team like the current Barca.
But still, imo, by far the most important factor was Messi.

Anyway, for those who don't believe, in 4 years, we will still have a good board, and good La Masia, Neymar and other guys, but you will see that it won't matter too much when Messi will be gone.

So, basically Xavi-Iniesta, Deco-Dinho, Puyi-Marquez-Pique-Abi, Henry-Eto'o were shit and would have been playing with 2nd or 3rd tier clubs around Europe.

All hail messi who got spain back to back Euros and their first WC too. It's just because of Messi yo!

Answered above.
Barca without Messi was already EQUALLY as strong as any other top team.
So, Messi was just an insane bonus which turned our team into a bunch of (unbeatable) aliens.

Argentina is a joke out of a team without Messi.

But again, wait 4 years, and you will see how the world (Barca's world) will look without Messi.
You will have all new Puyols, Xavis and similar new La Masia's boys, plus Neymars, Pogbas and other boys.

You'll see how it will work then...