Luis Enrique quits after this season!

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Nope, especially considering they come from Premier League. You are looking at it from completely different perspective. I am approaching this as a math task. Which would be more unlikely. And club like Leicester winning a league tournament will always be more unlikely than them winning CL. Because CL is CHAMPIONS league. Every club there is a champion or then at least top of their respected country.
If u throw some random bottler like Osasuna for CL next season and then they end up winning it. Then maybe i would agree with you. But no way in hell would English champions winning champions league be somekind of miraculous occasion jesus.

Nope you are ignoring the fact that even getting into the top four to allow for a shot at the CL is all included. So the consistency in the league is needed to even get there.

I know English football well enough and it would be a story on another level for them to win the CL from where they were a few years ago. By far.

Against much better teams than they beat last year.
 

LeeRomeno

Active member
It is also the no1 club competition in world in terms of prestige and highest standard competition in football.

Which is exactly why top clubs actually negotiated and wanted to get away from it and make a superleague? There are so many teams in CL group stages that would fail miserably in any top 4 leagues.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Which is exactly why top clubs actually negotiated and wanted to get away from it and make a superleague? There are so many teams in CL group stages that would fail miserably in any top 4 leagues.

No they want that for the money involved and the imbalance in tv money etc in England to be addressed.

Not because they want a league format that rewards consistency.
 

LeeRomeno

Active member
Nope you are ignoring the fact that even getting into the top four to allow for a shot at the CL is all included. So the consistency in the league is needed to even get there.

I know English football well enough and it would be a story on another level for them to win the CL. By far.

Against much better teams than they beat last year.

Leicester were 5000-1 to win PL before they won, they were 50-1 to win CL before this season. How can the latter be a bigger story? IF they actually win it while sacking coach midway, it would just add to their previous story, but it would definitely not top the original one. Its like Die Hard 2. First one will always be the best
 

LeeRomeno

Active member
No they want that for the money involved and the imbalance in tv money etc in England to be addressed.

Not because they want a league format that rewards consistency.

Sure, money plays part in it as well, but no top clubs are interesting in facing likes of Malmö or similar, just not attractive in what is suppose to be the "best tournament". Seriously the Group Stages are for most top squads pretty ez and they could play benchers and still advance.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
In this debate about league tournaments vs Champions league and how CL is random, knockout, based on luck etc.

Well, even World cups, Euros and all NT competitions have a knockout stage with even harsher rules (only 1 match compared with 2 matches in a CL), so, WCs and Euros are way, waaaaay more random and luck based than a CL then.
Yet, a WC is considered as the biggest prize in football.

Also, about knockout tournaments vs league competitions, one thing to consider:
= in league tournaments there are no "life or death" matches usually. Except El Classico and a final rounds of a season if leaders are tied on points.
You can fail and lose how many times you want in key matches and still be a champion if you won against crappy teams (Leganes, Eibar etc).
So, you can lose against RM 2 times, AM 2 times, Sevilla 2 times and win all minor matches and be a champion.
And why are you a champion? Not because you won against best teams, but because you were the most consistent in trashing lowtable teams week after week.

I am trying to say, to some extent, you can be mentally weak (and crumble under pressure every time) and still win a league if you are way better team.

To some extent, Barcelona was known prior to 2006 as the biggest club in the world with the lowest number of Champions cup/CL wins.
I remember reading some papers in 90s and some english journalist said: it will always remain the biggest mystery of modern football how FC Barcelona managed to win only 1 Champions cup/CL in their history (that was during 90s).
We were always known for playing nice and technically attractive.
But for years, we were losing key matches in key moments all the time. In the same fashion.
And when that happens 5 or 10 times, it can't be a bad luck. It is just a lack of mental strength and a lack of winner's mentality in knockout matches.

Luckily, we changed that from 2006 till today.

So, the same as how some posters here say that CL is random and luck, well, my view is that La liga is also mostly about skills and not too much about mental strength in key moments.
You can lose 1-2-5-10 matches (all key matches in La liga) and still be a champion if you won all easy matches against Leganes and Eibar (even though you lost against RM and AM both times).
La liga doesn't have "a sudden death" and life or death must win matches.
If you lose or fail, in 99% of cases, you will get another chance next week against Las Palmas or Eibar to get back to the 1st place if your opponent slips.
So, to some extent, La liga is about: who will be the most consistent against weaker teams and NOT who will be the best against best in 1 vs 1 direct matches.

So, each competition has it's pros and cons.
For La liga you need one set of skills, for CL you need some other skills also.

So, CL is also about luck, but for example, Barca sucked really hard in their last 4 CL exits on a mental strength's level:
1. Bayern 2013
2. AM 2014
3. AM 2016
4. Psg 2017

Our opponents had more courage and better mental strength in every of these ties.
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
Sure, money plays part in it as well, but no top clubs are interesting in facing likes of Malmö or similar, just not attractive in what is suppose to be the "best tournament". Seriously the Group Stages are for most top squads pretty ez and they could play benchers and still advance.

The top clubs will play the poorer teams if you give them money. That is their only aim for a possible european league not a competition based on consistency.

The group stages have some easier games and the latter stages have better teams. It is a higher standard than any league overall.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Leicester were 5000-1 to win PL before they won, they were 50-1 to win CL before this season. How can the latter be a bigger story? IF they actually win it while sacking coach midway, it would just add to their previous story, but it would definitely not top the original one. Its like Die Hard 2. First one will always be the best

You again are missing the point.

Leicester winning the CL does not start from the moment they qualify. It is before that league campaign even starts the season before or getting promoted years before. It is all part of wining it.

It is adding to the story and giving the biggest moment if managed it. Which they wont.

CL would be biggest by far wouldnt even be close.
 
Man this season's early exit in the CL is the worst.

Bayern was impending doom. ATM were both times possibly the hardest team for barca to beat, nevermind the league record, and it was close.
 

Icarium

Lifestealer
CL is the biggest trophy to win. No doubt about that. But that doesn't mean the winning team is best team in Europe. They need to win league also for that. But still winning a CL is a bigger achievement than winning a league. Even domestic double doesn't equal CL.
 

Messi983

Senior Member
La Liga>>>>CL for me. Always was, always will be. You have to be consistent throughout the season to win the league, you can win CL with "lucky" draws that helps you avoid any serious opponent until final. Also, one bad day or referee decision and you can be out of CL even if you play great in all previous games. In league you can have bad days or bad decisions for or against you but I believe the best or most deserving team always win it at the end. It's hard to be just lucky over 38 games.

I consider a season successful if we win "only" La Liga. If it's domestic double even better. We have only won 7 domestic doubles in our entire history, keep that in mind. If we can now win 3 in a row that would be an incedible achievement and Lucho will deserve a credit for that, even if he will "only" win one CL in his 3 years. Which is still one more than most of other big clubs will win in that same period.

And in years when we don't win CL I actually prefer to go out in Last 16 or quarterfinals than losing in semifinals or final.
 
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LeeRomeno

Active member
You again are missing the point.

Leicester winning the CL does not start from the moment they qualify. It is before that league campaign even starts the season before or getting promoted years before. It is all part of wining it.

It is adding to the story and giving the biggest moment if managed it. Which they wont.

CL would be biggest by far wouldnt even be close.

Lol, stop contradicting yourself, i would have never started this argument if your original statement wasnt something in the line of "Leicester winning CL would make everyone forget their PL winning as its totally more impressive achievement".
Now you are claiming that Leicester winning first PL and then CL is more impressive then Leicester winning only PL, which is obvious as fck.

Im done with this anyways.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Lol, stop contradicting yourself, i would have never started this argument if your original statement wasnt something in the line of "Leicester winning CL would make everyone forget their PL winning as its totally more impressive achievement".
Now you are claiming that Leicester winning first PL and then CL is more impressive then Leicester winning only PL, which is obvious as fck.

Im done with this anyways.

No you still dont get it and not contradicting myself.

Strop trolling and quoting things that were not said for you to then argue against.

Leicester winning the CL would be a bigger story than them winning the league.

Your maths argument is poor anyway.

Leicester to finish in the top four was around 500-1 and if then take the odds they were to win the CL once in it being 50-1 it dwarfs the odds of them just winning the league at around 25,000-1.
 

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