Lionel Messi - v7

[BarcaOG]

My point is that Messi's first years were GOAT.

After that something happened.
Remember that mysterious illness when he used to throw up during matches.

My theory is that he either had some arrhythmia attacks and freaked out because of it and was afraid to force himself to 120% ever again.
Or he had some anxiety attacks or similar.

But Messi was not the same after 2013-2014.

Till then I would never say that he was frightened on away matches.
I don't know was it a disease, was it him becoming a father, was it some unknown personal problems (he is kinda a weird man-child person, some even said semi-authistic), or was it a media pressure about Messi-Cr7 rivalry.

But in the last few years he turned into Jekyll and Hyde type of a person.
An unstoppable Goat in surroundings where he feels safe (Camp Nou matches and La liga matches) and a shadow of himself away from home (Nt matches, CL away matches).

Till 2012-2013-2014, I laughed to Messi-Cr7 comparisons.
But the thing is, Cr7 was better in the last few years due to his motivation and due to Barca being unable to stop Real in a CL since we (led by Messi) were losing against anyone so we never actually played against Real.

Today for me there are two Messis:
1. the young one who was awesome both in La liga and cheating codes in a CL
2. and an older Messi, with Messipendencia, who is an advantage only against average La liga teams, but who is very easy to neutralize in Europe, due to a decline in pace, stamina and due to his change in personality as explained above

So, Messi from early days was a GOAT.
But Messi from the last few years is just a human.
On par with R10, R9, Maradona and other guys.
And as explained, in the last 5-6 years, I would give a vote to Cr7 over Messi due to 4Cls+Euro versus 1 Cl.

Messi declined a lot compared to his early days.
The same as R9 after injuries.
Or R10 after 2006.

In that sense, I think that you guys are overrating this older version of Messi because he is ours and due to his early days.
I don't have any bad words for younger Messi.

Also, Messi is way more talented than Cr7.
Yet, Cr7 achieved equal or more with less talent.
In my eyes, in general, Messi could have achieved more.

Barto is guilty, his teammates were not perfect, but he is also guilty.
Dropping deep, not playing on a wing, sulking after 0:1 in Europe, insiting to play every match for 90 minutes, playing Mickey Mouse Cdr matches etc.

Yeah, sorry, 2014/2015 makes your theory completely implausible.

 

[Rory]

I think there's a few reasons his level somewhat "dropped." Guardiola leaving which is huge no matter what people might think of him. Next the core group of seniors that take the pressure off him are declining/retiring each season: Puyol, Xavi, Valdes, Abidal illness taking another senior player away. Sources of goals drying up: Villa, Pedro and Sanchez being limited in terms of goal scoring.

Not only that but when you're at the top the pressure to stay there and not get caught is far more difficult to deal with than chasing that same standard. The only thing you have to work towards is winning things you've already won more than once. Then there's the expectations he's had with Argentina which are like no other player in history whilst knowing the defence and goalkeeper are segunda level players.

 

[JohnN]

@BBZ has one thing right for everyone who has watched Barca closely. Messi after 12-13 gradually showed signs of physical decline, which was weird for his age. All the other stuff is pure speculation and ignoring of the circumstances, a.k.a:
Argentina was a Mess and still marginally lost to Germany the WC in 2014'. They also marginally lost some Copas after that. That is why cup competitions are weird, you can lose by details and can certainly not blame one player for that.
Barca hired bad managers and never reconstructed with equal players after 2012. We have been in free fall - that was only stalled by Messi after a while.
Carrying a mediocre team to the level of top tier teams is a big burdain.

 

[BBZ8800]

The puking and illness theory is put to bed by the 2014-2015 season. And even 18/19 to a lesser extent.

Dybala has anxiety problems, he told it.

Yet, he still has good months on a field here and there.

Footballers play at 120% all the time.
We are happy that not too many of them died.

You probably didn't watch World cup 1998 final live.
R9 was a machine before that.

On a day of the final, something happened.
Some say it was a seizure, some say something else.
He was forced to play that game (by Nike) and he looked like a player who will die in any moment.
France won 3:0.
After that he was plagued by other injuries and never was the same.

Or remember Brasilian Adriano.
In one moment top3 player in the world, and then he lost his mind.
His dad died, he started to drink and didn't find joy in football anymore.

Or you probably don't remember Dutch winger from early 2000s Andy Van Der Meyde.
Played for Ajax and Inter.
But then started to suffer from depression.
He later told that he wanted to kill himself and that he was taking drugs and alcohol every night.
He went from a wizzard to zero in a few Months.

Or our own Ronaldinho with partying after 2006, and Deco with a divorce who was never the same player after 2006.

With Messi, something changed around 2012-2013.
And again, 5 good Months (from mid January of 2015 after Sociedad till CL final) is not a debunk of this theory.

You guys should open videos of Messi in a CL in 2007-08, 2008-2012 and then matches in Paris, Torino, Rome, Anfield, Lisabon.

And tell me that nothing has changed with his bravery/fear?

 

[Luftstalag14]

When is the latest time we can still sell Messi this summer window? I mean, when does the transfer window close, with COVID-19 in consideration?

The last thing I want is to have us playing hardball till the end and then Messi ends up staying and dragging his ass to training reluctantly last minute and we waste so much time and money and postpone our rebuild for one more season for absolutely no good, nothing good at all. We will still play him next season and he becomes a huge question mark on the field. That would be the worst I think can happen.

 

[serghei]

Messi started to be less effective against the big sides when that stupid "free role" started to be used more and more.

Winger was his actual best position, if we don't count the False 9 stage, which only made sense because we had a master manager playing Cruyff's total football.

His biggest success as far as proper positioning is concerned was playing winger. Not fucking midfielder, 30m away from the goal.

 

[Tackle]

When is the latest time we can still sell Messi this summer window? I mean, when does the transfer window close, with COVID-19 in consideration?

The last thing I want is to have us playing hardball till the end and then Messi ends up staying and dragging his ass to training reluctantly last minute and we waste so much time and money and postpone our rebuild for one more season for absolutely no good, nothing good at all. That would be the worst I think can happen.

La Liga's schedule was released today and apparently we do not start our season until Round 3 on the 27th of September. We have an extended break due to going further in the CL and our first two rounds have been postponed to the 2nd half of the season.

Also no friendlies this pre-season. Maybe one. Actual transfer window closes on the 5th of October.

We have still a few weeks to sort this and our other transfer business out.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Messi 2011 is the best player I have ever seen. Only R9 Prime comes close to him. But I understand BBZ's point, his away performances in CL arent GOAT mode anymore. When was the last time he played superior away CL knockout match ? Last season he was magic against Lyon, Manu and Liverpool but everytime at home. Its not only him, the whole team has something wrong in their head when they face away matches.

 

[Pedro]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">❗Jordi Alba, Messi and Antonela Roccuzzo (Messi's wife) were spotted at Luis Su?rez's house to say their goodbyes. [cuatro] <a href="https://t.co/MTc8yEx7FG">pic.twitter.com/MTc8yEx7FG</a></p>— Bar?a Universal (@BarcaUniversal) <a href="https://twitter.com/BarcaUniversal/status/1300484817604222977?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 31, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Jenks]

The psychology of football supporters is hilarious.

The same thing every time.

 

[Kul_z]

It went so far that city might put a bid of de bruyne + cash for messi.

 

[malvolio]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Lionel Messi - The End<br><br> <a href="https://t.co/p1BWKguEON">pic.twitter.com/p1BWKguEON</a></p>— Ly?s (@Lyes_Messi10) <a href="https://twitter.com/Lyes_Messi10/status/1300462829699465216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 31, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[te amo barca]

Looks like all the amigos will leave for free

 

[KingLeo10]

Messi started to be less effective against the big sides when that stupid "free role" started to be used more and more.

Winger was his actual best position, if we don't count the False 9 stage, which only made sense because we had a master manager playing Cruyff's total football.

His biggest success as far as proper positioning is concerned was playing winger. Not fucking midfielder, 30m away from the goal.

This is also true.

Neymar's had the same issue in terms of effectiveness since 15/16.

 

[blackrum]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">❗Jordi Alba, Messi and Antonela Roccuzzo (Messi's wife) were spotted at Luis Su?rez's house to say their goodbyes. [cuatro] <a href="https://t.co/MTc8yEx7FG">pic.twitter.com/MTc8yEx7FG</a></p>— Bar?a Universal (@BarcaUniversal) <a href="https://twitter.com/BarcaUniversal/status/1300484817604222977?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 31, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is just ridiculous, they "were spotted" at Suarez house "to say their goodbyes"? Did they have goodbye written on their T shirt or how would someone conclude that from seeing them leave in their cars?