CatalinR10
Senior Member
,, Messi and Antonella are encountering some problems having their 4'th child. When Valverde was Barcelona's coach , Messi and Antonella had no problem having their 3rd child."[ mundo deportivo ]
Lionel Messi - v7
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
Blaugrana Bull
HiiiPoWeR
Walk vs Eibar, revival vs Napoli and conquering Bernabeu vs RM. I'm ready.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Whoscored: Messi: match statistics: offensive stats, La Liga:
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/11119/Show/Lionel-Messi
Since Setien came:
Granada 1:0, 9 shots, 1 goal (vs 10 men)
Valencia 0:2, 11 shots, 0 goals
Levante 2:1, 10 shots, 0 goals
Betis 3:2, 4 shots, 0 goals
Getafe 2:1, 6 shots, 0 goals
Under Setien, Messi currently has 39 shots in a row in La Liga without a goal (against 11 men).
It is premature to draw conclusions.
But there are some patterns in football.
For example, what we have learned in the past:
1. Setien's teams (Betis) were famous for having tons of possession and to have truly horrible execution rate.
Further: EV was labelled as the biggest cancer and how the team was dying under him.
Yet, in 19 La Liga matches under EV this season, we scored 55 goals.
Which is 2,89 goals per match.
Setien coached a team in 5 La Liga matches till now.
We scored 8 goals or 1,60 goals per match.
So, I know, it is premature, but still...
Setien is improving a team (according to a majority of people here), yet we dropped from 2,89 goals per match to 1,60 goals per match.
Messi looks as in a worst form of his career (scoring wise) under a new coach.
Frenkie looks 3 times worse than under EV.
Defense in general is even more chaotic.
Let's move further:
Have you never heard ideas that best players of a team are allowed to run less so that they could save their energy for sprints in counters or to get an extra inch o 1-2% more time/space/concentration to score when they will shoot.
A lot of times you can read comments from some players: I had to to drop too deep and I made a long sprint from my box to the opponent's box and when I finally got a chance to shoot, I wasn't at 100% anymore.
Imo, it is really not a too crazy question: if Messi is training lightly for his whole career.
And even then, we have seen tons of times that his stamina has dropped in March and April, when we needed him the most.
That happened when he was 27 or 29.
He is almost 33 now, and his body is in a worse state than 5 years ago when he had similar problems.
Now, let's call Sherlock to answer this insanely tough question:
If a player is old and can't run like crazy, what is wiser:
1. to train him lightly, rotate him, conserve his energy and get the most in actions where he is the best (in this case: in shooting)
2. or, let's go full retard and pretend that a 33 years old who never ran too much can suddenly train like a Spartan and play every match for 90 minutes, move more during matches, create/move/dribble/defend and on top of that to score in majority of matches.
The sample is too small and this could be just a coincidence.
But if Messi's trend will continue, then you can easily point some fingers to a coaching staff, training intensity, quality of chances etc.
Should I even DARE to ask a question: imagine if Messi had such a slump in his shooting numbers in December under Valverde?
We would see 20 000 posts:
Wow, this is EV has ruined every single player.
He is so bad that he even managed to ruin a GOAT Messi.
With Frenkie, we had to read for Months that he is meh for Barca because EV is an idiot, we don't have a system, nobody is moving etc.
Then we get a new coach and Frenkie is miles worse than under EV.
Last edited:
behindbrowneyes
Well-known member
Suárez had a goal contribution of 1,06 per game in La Liga, so there you have the main difference between Valverde (2,89) and Setién (1,6). Messi's scoring is off since he is reported to have a problem with his thigh.
F"kn Setien. Suarez numbers went to sh*t since Setien come.
Kul_z
Senior Member
No, last season tally. He is one short of equalling that. And more then half of those assists came under setien
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Betis had 1,16 goals per match last season under Setien.
This season, when he is gone, they are scoring 1,33 goals per match.
So, they lost a better coach, changed him with an inferior guy yet they are scoring more.
Weird.
Maybe they also missed Suarez in the last season?
Regarding Suarez, reading this forum prior to this season, I had an impression that Suarez is the biggest shit in the world (behind two other biggest shits, EV and Raki, of course).
And that anyone would be better than him.
People were sure that Griezz is our longterm No9.
Or even more, under EV:
Bilbao: No Messi, Suarez got injured early (37 minutes)
Betis: No Messi, no Suarez
Osasuna: No Messi, no Suarez
Valencia: No Messi, Suarez 30 mins
Granada: Messi 45 mins
Villareal: Messi 45 mins
Getafe: No Messi
Levante: Suarez 41 mins
Celta: Suarez 17 mins
Basically, out of 19 matches, EV played:
5 matches without Messi AT ALL
2 matches with Messi for 45 minutes
= so, EV had Messi for only 12 matches for 90 minutes
Suarez:
2 matches without Suarez
and 4 matches with Suarez playing in between 17 and 41 minutes.
= EV had Suarez for only 13 out of 19 matches
So, I am kinda new here and I am trying to understand thinking patterns of users here, because those patterns seem quite weird and illogical at times:
So:
1. EV was the biggest shit and the biggest cancer and his team was getting worse and worse in his 3rd season. Yet, not too many mentioned that he played 7 matches without Messi and 6 matches without Suarez
Maybe, just maybe, IS THERE A CHANCE that our lower number of points this season under EV is influenced by a fact that he missed Messi&Suarez in 7+6 matches out of 19?
2. Dembele was injured ALL the time
3. in some matches ALL out of Messi, Suarez and Dembele were out
4. Alba played only 10 matches out of 19 under EV. And he had to play Firpo, or even Roberto and Semedo as a LB.
5. Arthur missed majority of a season.
6. Umtiti played 4 matches out of 19
7. nobody mentioned that we have a thin squad as an excuse for EV.
In fact, he was blamed for injuries because he is an idiot and he has probably caused those injuries with his shit physical preparation.
Yet, this team from above, without Dembele and with Messi and Suarez missing 13 matches managed to score 2,89 goals per match in EV's shittiest season.
And now we have a new coach (and if I remember correctly, everyone were saying for years: ANYONE would be better than EV, our squad is fine, we just need a normal coach).
Now suddenly:
1. we don't have Suarez and that is a huge blow
2. we don't have Dembele, whom we didn't have the whole season
3. Setien even has Arthur who missed the start of a season and November, December and January under EV
Umtiti is in a better shape. Alba played in 5 matches till now.
4. but suddenly our team is very thin, very old and a poor coach can't get too much out of them=because as said: majority of our players are old, tired and injured
So, basically, when you take everything into an account, going from 2,89 goals per match to 1,60 goals per match is a huge improvement, and only "a trained eye and someone who understands football and Barca can understand and spot these things".
Again, this is a newby question since I am new here.
I would like to adopt that kind of a reasoning (like a majority of fans here) but I am having some problems with it, some things just don't make sense.
This is why I am asking for a help.
behindbrowneyes
Well-known member
Betis heavily invested into their offense and bought Iglesias and Fekir for a combined 48M. All in all their quality and depth in their offense is better than last season.
Regarding the games you've mentioned when EV either missed Messi or Suárez or both: Barcelona's winning record in those 9 games: 5W - 1D - 3L --> 1,78points/game
Setién in La Liga so far: 5 games without Suárez 4W - 0D - 1L --> 2,4 points
Now we can dive deeper and discuss about Barcelona under Setién winning games only with 1 goal-difference or him having at least Messi in every of these 5 games. A forum is here for discussions, but all in all it's kinda pathetic to talk about figures like average goals, points whatever since the sample size of games Barcelona being coached by Quique S. is way too small to draw a conclusion. We can do that at the end of the season although even then it won't be pretty fair since Setién neither had a pre-season nor the chance to address the weaknesses of the squad with transfers. He has to work with the squad Valverde formed in the last 2,5 years. A coach, who had a pretty different tactical approach.
My point was: Suárez missing is statistically very significant when it comes to scoring. This is measurable in numbers like him contributing to more than 1 goal every game and not measurable in him penetrating defenses and drawing defenders
If Messi gets out of this scoring slump and starts banging in the goals BBZ will have egg all over his face again.
FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
BBZ knows these are too small sample sizes to make any assumptions.
serghei
Senior Member
He's scrambling because he's scared Setien will beat EV's 40 points in 19 games with a shorter squad, filled with long term injuries and very few options on the bench.
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