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Sir Alupp Heynrguson
Yeah, but there has been a lot fewer CLs than leagues.
How many national titles would you trade for 1 Champions L. ??
- Thread starter ejuventus
- Start date
Yeah, but there has been a lot fewer CLs than leagues.
footyfan
Calma, calma
Since the CL was introduced in 1992, 13 different teams have won it. Here's a comparison of the CLs won vs league titles won since 1992 for those 13 teams:
Real Madrid - 4 CL, 7 leagues
Barcelona - 3 CL, 10 leagues
AC Milan - 3 CL, 6 leagues
Bayern Munich - 2 CL, 12 leagues
Manchester United - 2 CL, 13 leagues
FC Porto - 1 CL, 15 leagues
Ajax - 1 CL, 10 leagues
Juventus - 1 CL, 8 leagues
Inter Milan - 1 CL, 5 leagues
Borussia Dortmund - 1 CL, 5 leagues
Chelsea - 1 CL, 3 leagues
Marseille - 1 CL, 1 league
Liverpool - 1 CL, 0 league
Total - 22 CL, 95 leagues
Only Liverpool has won more CLs than leagues since 1992 while Marseille has equal number of CL and league wins.
I'm pretty sure this trend will be prevalent if you extrapolate the data using European Cup wins and league wins from pre-1992 years.
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H
Haruko The Goon
Guest
LOOL The CL has all the teams facing Each Other. While the league has maybe 1 or 2 other good teams... therefore increasing the likeliness of winning... but not the ease.... As in the CL you sometimes can be drawn against 2 sometimes 3 average teams which are beatable. In a league you face everybody, twice. Easy medium and difficult matches.
It's easier for an unfavoured side to win the CL than it is for an unfavoured side to win the PL. The CL favourites at the start of the year rarely end up winning the CL, but the PL favourites generally tend to win or come very close.
So to conclude, if you're the best side, it's easier to win a league competition. If you're not, the CL is more likely to be your best chance of silverware.
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Raed
Dr. Raed St. Claire
At one point in time, Real Madrid fan were ready to give up 5 league titles for La Decima, which shows you how important that cup win is. However, now that we have won it, I wouldn't want to trade anything, except maybe 5 Copa del Reys for the CL or League. I really don't care for the Copa del Rey, lol.
As for Italy, growing up through the 90s watching it, I know that the league title is up there with the greatest challenges for any player or coach when you consider the 7 sisters were all in it. Inter won the CL recently but it is not a top priority, what is however, is to get in the run for dominating the league.
Every trophy counts at the end of the day and every trophy tells a different story, but to each team and each culture it means a different thing, and it changes from time to time. Liverpool for instance, would die to win the PL right now, not entirely concerned with the CL. When they do win the PL, they'd want to do it again to convince the world it wasn't a fluke and from there continue winning. Ultimately, survival is the main objective, and winning the CL isn't a survival method, winning the league is. Real Madrid is a different case but Barcelona survived because of their domestic achievements and finally ended up with a golden generation that saw them win 3 European titles. It cost Inter over 1 billion in oil money to survive, and that is coming from an insanely passionate owner, this is not sustainable and a club like Inter would have been destroyed or dissolved without this money.
As for Italy, growing up through the 90s watching it, I know that the league title is up there with the greatest challenges for any player or coach when you consider the 7 sisters were all in it. Inter won the CL recently but it is not a top priority, what is however, is to get in the run for dominating the league.
Every trophy counts at the end of the day and every trophy tells a different story, but to each team and each culture it means a different thing, and it changes from time to time. Liverpool for instance, would die to win the PL right now, not entirely concerned with the CL. When they do win the PL, they'd want to do it again to convince the world it wasn't a fluke and from there continue winning. Ultimately, survival is the main objective, and winning the CL isn't a survival method, winning the league is. Real Madrid is a different case but Barcelona survived because of their domestic achievements and finally ended up with a golden generation that saw them win 3 European titles. It cost Inter over 1 billion in oil money to survive, and that is coming from an insanely passionate owner, this is not sustainable and a club like Inter would have been destroyed or dissolved without this money.
footyfan
Calma, calma
Good post Raed. Context matters when we're talking about what fans yearn for.
Your definition of 'hard' and my definition are apparently different. The league takes more effort (hard work - is this what you're talking about?) because it has 38 games. The CL is harder to win because one mistake and you're out. There are numerous examples of teams that won their league but failed to win the CL that year (guaranteed 4-5 teams every year) while there are only a few examples when a team won the CL but failed to win the league that year.
Smart. The league is the true test of what? How to thrash Rayo 6-0 instead of 4-0? You make it sound like anybody can win the CL with a bit of luck. Yes of course the league has a lesser margin of error when it comes to whether a team deserved to win or not, but at the end of the day, the league only tells you that you're the best in your own country. Which is not comparable to being the best in Europe.
Your definition of 'hard' and my definition are apparently different. The league takes more effort (hard work - is this what you're talking about?) because it has 38 games. The CL is harder to win because one mistake and you're out. There are numerous examples of teams that won their league but failed to win the CL that year (guaranteed 4-5 teams every year) while there are only a few examples when a team won the CL but failed to win the league that year.
Smart. The league is the true test of what? How to thrash Rayo 6-0 instead of 4-0? You make it sound like anybody can win the CL with a bit of luck. Yes of course the league has a lesser margin of error when it comes to whether a team deserved to win or not, but at the end of the day, the league only tells you that you're the best in your own country. Which is not comparable to being the best in Europe.
Kerrybai
New member
It's impossible to be a number on it and you have to consider different factors. For us Barca fans winning the 2 under Pep were huge as they established us as a European giant and getting a 5th would be a big deal as it draws us level with Bayern and Liverpool, so for number 5 I would say maybe 3 league titles.
Liverpool fans on the other hand would give everything for a premier league title.
Also I think it's worth noting that a modern CL win is much bigger than winning the old tournament. With no disrespect to Madrid's 5 in a less competitive era. In this modern era 100's of millions watch the CL and it's one of the biggest shows on earth, winning it is everything and with each passing year it continues to 'dwarf' league campaigns.
Right now as a Barca fan I would say 3 league titles.
Liverpool fans on the other hand would give everything for a premier league title.
Also I think it's worth noting that a modern CL win is much bigger than winning the old tournament. With no disrespect to Madrid's 5 in a less competitive era. In this modern era 100's of millions watch the CL and it's one of the biggest shows on earth, winning it is everything and with each passing year it continues to 'dwarf' league campaigns.
Right now as a Barca fan I would say 3 league titles.
ejuventus
New member
I read all your comments.....very interesting and well expressed.
Thank you for that...it completes my idea about modern football with the opinions of supporters of such big clubs
At the end, there's a range of feelings, as it is right to be because it's something related to the single clubs and even supporters
Thank you for that...it completes my idea about modern football with the opinions of supporters of such big clubs
At the end, there's a range of feelings, as it is right to be because it's something related to the single clubs and even supporters
Raed
Dr. Raed St. Claire
Except is Liverpool a force at all? They won the CL in 2005 and they are pretty much a terrible team up until this season where they benefited from lack of European football. Leagues build football culture, builds a sustainable system, builds a fan base, builds for the future, the CL is nothing but a cherry on top. There is a lot of prestige that comes with it but it is not a true test of the years.
Juventus have won 5 European titles (or 4?) and they maintained their existence due to the league wins. Barca, maintained their existance through winning the league because your European performance was garbage. Inter Milan won the treble and that didn't do then any good because their team was built to win the CL, not to last the ages. So yes, the league is a true test of endurance, it is a true test in the sense that a draw can be considered a loss. It is a true test for managers, not on a tactical level only, but on their human management as well.
XaviMessiGirl
New member
Juve only have two CL's.
footyfan
Calma, calma
I'm not arguing about which title is more important for a football club to run it's business and sustain itself - that is a separate discussion. I've only been arguing that the CL is harder to win. Just reverse the question and see what you answer - how many CL's are you willing to give up for 1 league title?
If you were answering to the second portion of my post about true test and stuff, that was a rhetorical comment that I exaggerated to mock the implication or tone of his post. I wasn't actually expecting a response.
A team like Liverpool obviously is not a force because they are an anomaly as I showed below. As a hypothetical extreme example, a team that wins 3 CLs in a row without any league wins will undoubtedly be more of a force than a team that wins 3 domestic leagues in a row without any CL wins.
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ejuventus
New member
yes......6 european Cups (1 WinnersCup and 3 UEFA Cups)..... but only 2 CL despite 7 finals
ejuventus
New member
you should put Barcelona 4 CL and Marseille 0, because CL was introduced in 1992, with Barcelona winner while Marseille won on 1991, last edition with the old format
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