Group B: Spain, Netherlands, Chile, Australia

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voodoomaster

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I had a lot of fun watching Spain getting butchered, but I must admit that I have a very bitter after taste now. This game in a way showcased that our era is over. Our players, whether be Iniesta, Xavi, Busq or Mr. Shakira are all in decline or in a monstrous slump, without seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I don't know where we will go from here. I feel very unease right now. :(

We need new blood and some drastic changes, perhaps.

Our era was over in after we beat United in 2011. Puyol out of it. Villa gone, xavi decline, pique decline, pedro decline, abi out. Guardiola out next season. Xavi wasnt the same player in 2012, simple fact. We didnt bought the right players and here we are. The board and lucho must Get it right, if not we have to wait to election time 2016.
 

CatalinR10

Senior Member
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BBZ8800

Senior Member
I hope you all realize that we just had a preview to how Man UTD-Barca could play out next season unless Lucho rethinks and revolutionizes our tactics here. Its not our way of playing, its not our style and our players still posses a clear advantage in technical quality over all of the other players in the world. Its simply the shape.

Been saying the same shit with Barca for a while now and no one listens lol

Yes. Everyone learned how to expose/score against Barca's/Spain's formation.
And also how to defend against us.

But we just don't change anything and hope that things will magically go back to the 2008's or 2010's level.
They won't. Never again.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Our era was over in after we beat United in 2011. Puyol out of it. Villa gone, xavi decline, pique decline, pedro decline, abi out. Guardiola out next season. Xavi wasnt the same player in 2012, simple fact. We didnt bought the right players and here we are. The board and lucho must Get it right, if not we have to wait to election time 2016.

Yes, but it is not only about players.

As I bleed blaugrana explained, it is about our system and how everyone learned how to expose it.

Theoretically, even our best team from 2008, 2009 or 2010 would suffer today.
Teams didn't know back then how to defend against us and how to expose the weaknesses of our formation.

Today it seems that every big team knows them and can easily expose us/Spain.

We need an upgrade to our formation/tactics.
 
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voodoomaster

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Yes, but it is not only about players.

As I bleed blaugrana explained, it is about our system and how everyone learned how to expose it.

Theoretically, even our best team from 2008, 2009 or 2010 would suffer today.
Teams didn't know back then how to defend against us and how to expose the weaknesses of our formation.

Today it seems that every big team knows them and can easily expose us/Spain.

We need an upgrade to our formation/tactics.

Thats very theoretically, because - as you know - a xavi in his prime, a superb and balanced defense(see abi), a very good pedro, a brilliant messi, later on villa. Well, they outplayed the opponents with style. Its nearly impossible to stop - and by definition it should be hard to stop what many hold as the nest team ever. Harder? Yes, but not that much harder.

I can appreciate variation, but the unique la masia fundament is why I watch barca.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Thats very theoretically, because - as you know - a xavi in his prime, a superb and balanced defense(see abi), a very good pedro, a brilliant messi, later on villa. Well, they outplayed the opponents with style. Its nearly impossible to stop - and by definition it should be hard to stop what many hold as the nest team ever. Harder? Yes, but not that much harder.

I can appreciate variation, but the unique la masia fundament is why I watch barca.

Ok, but again you are forgetting one thing in this calculation:
= teams back then didn't know yet how to defend against Tiki-Taka and how to exploit it

Let's say it roughly in numbers:
-- Messi was at 100% back then, today he is at 90%
-- Iniesta was at 100% back then, he is at 90% today
-- Xavi was at 100% back then, he is at 70% today etc..

-- so, yes, I agree, our players are not on their peak anymore

But, our opponents knew back then only 20% how to play against Tiki-Taka, and today they know 90% of things.

In other words:
-- maybe our team from 2009 would also lose in 1/2 of CL each year against Bayern, Real and similar teams
-- they would score 2-3 Goals more than the current team, but they would still concede let's say 3-4-5 in 2 games, because the holes in this system are huge when you learn the tricks

Also:
-- even our current team with Messi at 90%, Iniesta at 90% and Xavi at 70% would maybe win the CL in 2009 because 99% of teams were surprised and clueless what to do, how to play, how to defend and how to attack our team
-- today it is much different
-- ok, maybe the current team wouldn't win in a such convincing way as 2009' team, but still, they would also probably win everything in those days

For example, a slightly extreme example, imagine that Fifa allows to Brasil to play with 12 players, for some reason. And that all other teams have to play with 11 players.
At first, Brazil would win 9 out of 10 matches.

But after 5-10 years, other teams (who play with "only" 11 players) would eventually learn what is the best way to defend against 12 players and how to eventually caught them at counterattacks, corners or similar. If you get my point..

This is how I look at our Tiki-Taka from those days.
It was a perfect formation, our players were on their prime, but also it was a huge surprise for all of our opponents.

People were lost and confused when they faced our system in the first 1-2-3 Seasons.
This is why our team looked like a team of gods or robots in those days.

Later the magic disappeared. People say: Pep is gone, we don't press, we don't run etc..
I don't believe in those explanations.

Teams have simply learned how to play and defend against us and that's it.
Our opponents have evolved and improved, and we are standing on the same place and we are hoping/waiting for a 2009 to magically come back again.

Again, without changes to our system, 2009 will probably never return.
 
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Flavia

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Spain last in the group after the 1st round... Who would have thought.
 
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