Ernesto Valverde

[Hardy]

You can spend another 200m on another midfield and a CB or two, and it will make no difference as long as Suarez is starting, Messi is positionless and Griezmann is stuck somewhere you limit him to 50% of what he can be.

What do people expect our midfielders to even do? Drive the ball forward and pass it to who? None of our forward make any runs forward and when they try to do so, they're too slow for it to matter, or miss the chances they get.

first of all I agree with you, just saying it's depressive how the board splashed a lot of money in the last years and we still have the same issues. Having said that benching some dinosaurs and put a lineup more coherent with current state of football possibly with world class players not wasted in uncomfortable roles (talking about Griezmann and De Jong) would help this team to perform better than the atrocity we are witnessing.

 

[EdmondDantes]

Distance covered for week 3 of the Champions League:

1. Bayer Leverkusen 121,1
Leipizig 117,5
Atlético Madrid 117,2
Slavia Praga 115,2
Bayern 114,3
LOSC 114,2
Inter 113
Zenit 112,7
Benfica 112,6
Atalanta112,6
Tottenham 112,4
Estrella Roja 112,4
Salzburgo 112,2
Olympiacos 111,9
Liverpool 110,8
Lyon 110,6
Ajax 110,2
Juventus 110
M. City 110,6
Genk 109,1
Valencia 108,7
Dortmund 108,3
Galatasaray 107,7
Real Madrid 107,4
Lokomotiv 107,3
Dinamo Zagreb 106
Shakthar 105,9
Chelsea 105,4
PSG 104,5
Nápoles 103,5
Club Brujas 102,6
32. Barça 100,4

Yep:


"De los diez futbolistas que más distancia recorrieron, cinco de los seis primeros son del Slavia. Solo De Jong, cuarto con 11.36 km, se coló entre Olayinka, quinto con 11.20 km, Coufal, tercero con 11.41 km, Soucek, segundo con 12.56 km, y Sevick, primero con 13.8 kilómetros.

El Top 10 lo completan Boril, sexto con 10.72, y los cuatro restantes fueron Jordi Alba, séptimo con 10.63 km, Lenglet, octavo con 10.14 km, Arthur, noveno con 9.71 km, y finalmente Piqué, décimo con 9.68 kilómetros."


Out of the 10 players who ran the most last night (Slavia vs Barca) - 5 of the top 6 were Slavia players.

Only De Jong was 4th with 11.36 km covered.


The other Barca players in the top 10 were:

Alba 10.63 km

Lenglet 10.14 km

Arthur 9.71 km (subbed on the 84th min)

Pique 9.68 km


-

Stats from the Dortmund and Inter games show that Arthur and Frenkie run 11, 12 km a game now problem if they play the full 90'. Alba generally covers a lot of ground as well, and so does Semedo.


It's the front 3 that's the real issue for me - if you look at the top teams in Europe, they press like hell from the front (City and Liverpool - only Aguero and sometimes Salah get a bit of leeway on that regard). Whereas 2/3 of ours typically doesn't. I say typically because Messi did work hard for the first 30 minutes last night. As he did against Liverpool at the Camp Nou, but that's not the norm.


It's fine with Messi since he's a genius, but Messi and Suarez, that's when the whole balance of the team gets distorted.

 

[Marshall D Teach]

It's not only Valverde.

Busquets, Suarez, one of Pique or Lenglet shouldn't be starting. We won't do well unless we line up with two wingers. So you either have to compensate for Messi by moving him centrally or tell him to play as a RW.

You can talk all you want about controlling the game or the midfield, but when you got two forwards up front not pressing, not working hard, not moving off the ball, no width, no pace, it's not possible to control the game.

Don't count on Valverde benching any of those ever.

It's not just Valverde but a competent coach would solve a lot of our other problems simultaneously.

It's the coach's job to bench underperformers and it's the coach's job to try to figure out the Messi false RW problem. Messi's shortcomings can be built around but we need a decent coach to do it. We can start by benching Suarez because we can't build around both of them walking all game. Which, again, Valverde won't do.

 

[Riordon]

Within 1-2 years I want all from Club de Amigos to leave. All of them, including Messi. I’m grateful for everything he has done but we need to start on a blank page.

 

[henias]

Valverde cannot solve this issue, but he could try a more offensive formation in 4-2-3-1 and play Messi centrally to compensate for his workrate issues, Suarez as the CF as he's obviously undroppable for Ernie and Dembele/Ansu and Griezmann on the LW and RW respectively.

You'll be asking a lot from de Jong and Arthur to hold down the midfield, but both have played in this system before at Ajax and Gremio so it's not unusual for them.

Either way, there's no chance we win the CL, but perhaps they'll stop looking like a mid-table team out there.

Valverde has tried 4231 and the diamond 442. A 4231 in its defensive phase is basically your flat 442.

There's a reason why Valverde love the 4231.

A great instance would be the game against Chelsea. Both formations proved to be extremely physical exhausting for our team. Double pivot can be great but they limit the brilliant midfield into more structured defensive routine. With the likes of Arthur and De Jong I prefer they explore more attacking options. The wingers has to also work extremely hard to track back, not with the likes of Dembele, and they have to be extremely quick and pacy to aid in both attack and defence. Griezmann has work rate but he's not really that dynamic. Opponents full backs can push up high due to ineffective wingers in a 4231. Due to the demanding nature of 4231, it can greatly stifle the attacking potential of our team. A team like Liverpool's would be more suited for 4231.

I'd always prefered a 343 and 433. These are formations more suited for our team. I generally liked the signings of midfielders that we have been missing since the good ol days. We should be accomodating them instead of the unbalanced signing of Griezmann and trying to force 4 attackers in play.

 

[Marshall D Teach]

Within 1-2 years I want all from Club de Amigos to leave. All of them, including Messi. I’m grateful for everything he has done but we need to start on a blank page.

Club de Amigos isn't going anywhere with a muppet like Valverde as coach. Maybe if we had a coach that actually had the balls to bench them.

 

[khaled_a_d]

A lot of you blame Valverde while not talking about the players who are part of this.
Remember we were ridiculed in CL long before Valverde and will continue to do so after him.

Let’s talk about Messi. Runs 6 km each game which other players have to compensate for. Don’t want to play false 9 without a 9 or play right winger.
Forces you to play 442 without a right winger and no pressure from the first defensive lead which exposures our defensive issues. Furthermore it forces the right midfielder to play as a right winger because we have no runner in behind on the right.

Messi is a tactical nightmare and it’s the same for Argentina. This is our teams biggest structure issue and no manager can solve it. None. I actually respect Valverde for two liga titles with these tactical issues.

Love Messi but I believe we will be better of in the CL when he retires and we just play true wingers both left and right and a true 9.

We been shit last 5 years in the cL and Valverde been here for two of them.

Wake up man

you'll probably get called ungrateful but I agree..

It's not only Valverde.

After over 2 years of saying this, I am glad more people are taking the red pill

Valverde cannot solve this issue, but he could try a more offensive formation in 4-2-3-1 and play Messi centrally to compensate for his workrate issues, Suarez as the CF as he's obviously undroppable for Ernie and Dembele/Ansu and Griezmann on the LW and RW respectively.

You'll be asking a lot from de Jong and Arthur to hold down the midfield, but both have played in this system before at Ajax and Gremio so it's not unusual for them.

Either way, there's no chance we win the CL, but perhaps they'll stop looking like a mid-table team out there.

4231 is basically another name for 442 we have played in his 1st year. And it was really hated here.
Despite being a deep believer in 433 as the best tactic in football, I actually think 442 (or 4231 if you want to name it this way) was the best solution for the team. It brought more balance to the line up.
Coutinho being shit, Dembele being shit, with Iniesta and Paulinho leaving while Chelsea asking huge sum for 30 years Willian -whom I don't like but was perfect for such game plan- all contributed in abandoning it. After Iniesta leaving who do we have to play that gameplan? You can't just put Dembele and Griezmann on the wings with Suarez and Messi in the middle and hope it work with Arthur/FDJ carrying the load. That will be asking a lot from them especially Arthur. You need an Iniesta type of winger at least, we don't have that.

Honestly, I think sooner or later Suarez has to be dropped for Griezmann. Griezmann is the better player for me even this year, Suarez is better goal scorer but at some point you need to pick the better player.
The only problem, who is gonna replace him?Fati is too young to be starter. For his own good at least. Dembele is almost a lost cause, Perez not good enough? Would Alena fit in that Paulinho role? He played there before so may be it is worth a try.

With that being said, rebuilding midfield and defense will at least ensure our rebuild in post-Messi era is easier. We need one extra piece in midfield, and if we are being honest with ourselves we need 4 starting defensive line within the next 2 years. With Semedo or Lenglet acceptable as starter if we fail to find upgrades.
Obsession with attack would just make things worse.

 

[te amo barca]

I've been saying that Messi's central position is a problem since he has started to occupy it after coming back from an injury in the 15/16 season. 4 years later, we still haven't resolved it. This is the board's fault. We have no development plan; we are simply a brand, a machine designed to bring maximum profit.

 

[Riordon]

I've been saying that Messi's central position is a problem since he has started to occupy it after coming back from an injury in the 15/16 season. 4 years later, we still haven't resolved it. This is the board's fault. We have no development plan; we are simply a brand, a machine designed to bring maximum profit.

How do you solve it? Messi does what he wants and the board can’t do anything. Unless you want them to sell him.

 

[Marshall D Teach]

I've been saying that Messi's central position is a problem since he has started to occupy it after coming back from an injury in the 15/16 season. 4 years later, we still haven't resolved it. This is the board's fault. We have no development plan; we are simply a brand, a machine designed to bring maximum profit.

Hiring Valverde certainly didn't help. He's done exactly 0 to even attempt to fix this issue.

 

[messi2140]

Messi positionally being a problem is always known , but isn't that up to the manager to fix those things ? But at this point it's just wishful thinking. The catalans seem fine winning these easy leagues with Messi tearing it apart in la liga while getting dicked down in the CL.

It is what it is.

 

[Riordon]

With that being said, rebuilding midfield and defense will at least ensure our rebuild in post-Messi era is easier. We need one extra piece in midfield, and if we are being honest with ourselves we need 4 starting defensive line within the next 2 years. With Semedo or Lenglet acceptable as starter if we fail to find upgrades.
Obsession with attack would just make things worse.

So depressing to read this. After so much money spent on the backline, I agree with your point that they all for soon need replacement. Going to cost a shitload, let alone if their are players available.

 

[te amo barca]

How do you solve it? Messi does what he wants and the board can’t do anything. Unless you want them to sell him.

Well, Lucho managed to convince him stick on the wing for a year, though there have been reports that Suarez and Messi decided that on their own. The board, however, should have appointed a competent coach who would have identified this issue. Suarez had to be binned two years ago, and Messi should have become the only central attacker with a Villa-type left winger and a real winger who hugs the line on the right. It is the only solution; I am very skeptical about a 4-2-3-1 with Messi as a CAM; we would have no movement in midfield essentially.

 

[wisconsincule]

This is all depressing and so true. As things stand we are set up to get embarrassed in the later stages of the champions league by a team who will simply out hustle/work us.

Valverde needs to have the balls and try Griezmann for Suarez. There is little chance Suarez finds the bench but one can hope.

 

[Riordon]

Well, Lucho managed to convince him stick on the wing for a year, though there have been reports that Suarez and Messi decided that on their own. The board, however, should have appointed a competent coach who would have identified this issue. Suarez had to be binned two years ago, and Messi should have become the only central attacker with a Villa-type left winger and a real winger who hugs the line on the right. It is the only solution; I am very skeptical about a 4-2-3-1 with Messi as a CAM; we would have no movement in midfield essentially.

I can assure you that Valverde who is actually great tactically has identified this issue long time ago. He just can’t tell Messi to stick to wing. He has compensated for this by his 442 which won us two leagues and almost won us the CL last year.

Messi asked himself for a 9 to help him in 2014. This Messi false 9/Lomé forward experiment dies a long time ago.

Show some respect to Valverde.