Ernesto Valverde - V1

[Sorin]

Just look at that joke of a newspaper that is Mundo Deportivo. Not one article slagging off this shitshow of a manager after a second consecutive humiliation in CL.

What a bunch of cucks. At least Sport has 2 articles on Valverde being shit but from the president's lackeys nothing.

 

[pepi]

ten Hag

 

[khaled_a_d]

He is gonna leave, which many here wants. But I doubt anything will change. Different scenarios, but same end product.
I've been saying this all-season long, since September 1st actually, we lack what it takes to win CL. we are club with total lack of sense of urgency and absolutely complacent. The core outfield players are 6 players who are over 30. All of them have won CL, 5 of them have at least played a WC final or won continental tournament. They had all success in the world.
This wasn't specific to this season, but it has been the story for 7 out of last 8 seasons. 7 fuckin seasons we see this players acts like they don't give a shit on the pitch. Has anything changed?
The root of the problem starts with the socios, who are mostly senior citizen who follow Grupo Godó mouthpieces religiously, those are the people who gave Rossell a historic unprecedented win in 2010 just after Laporta gave us 2nd CL, out of 3 total in club history at that time. Basically giving our historic president the middle finger during the peak of his success

Those guys are happy with our domestic success, I mean they can enjoy us winning 19 home games in Liga over 3-6 games in CL. They don't share same mentality or goals of international fans, this has been clear for years now.
The club is a product of that culture, the superiors never force the change. How many senior player did the club told him to leave? How many senior player did we refuse to gave a contract extension? Raki might be the only name I've in mind, probably because he asked way too soon when he was too old and didn't have such long history.
Pepe had bigger history with RM than Mascherano yet the former was told to pack his bags and the later had to decide when and where to leave based on his timeline, in middle of the season too. Xavi was ok to stay at the age of 35, while being starter at the age of 34 too while he was actually severely declining since 2011 season was over. Casillas was shown the door at similar time when he also had such huge history with his club.
It is good to have good gestures to players who gave it their all, but in football you also need to be ruthless. You can't be too comfortable.


And an equally devastating problem, is the lack of sporting project since Zubi was given the axe
Roberto was a guy of mid-table mentality, and Abidal is showing signs of that early on. Those guys never look at the big picture.
Lack of sporting project was why they thought Coutinho is a natural fit here, why they thought Dembele is superior talent than Mpabbe and why they were happy getting versatile and Liga proven Arda and the Spanish Vidal , why they thought they stole Gomes from RM etc.

There is some lack of understanding of some of the basics. And it actually look to continue for next season

Everyone loves FDJ, and kid is good and everything. But is he a CM or DM? This is a question that no one can answer for sure. He is DM right now with Ajax, his best attributes comes from playing deep, but he also make runs that isn't allowed from Barca DM, on the ball he is closer to Barca CM than DM.
If he is DM, who protects the defense? Is it him and Arthur? if he is CM, how is gonna coexist with Arthur when they mostly occupy similar space? who is gonna create for attack?
That isn't speaking against FDJ, in the contrary, but failing to realize those details before he arrived, and knowing what is exactly his role when he will be under immense pressure thanks to his price tag (we aren't a tolerant fanbase to costly players) can be simply setting the kid for failure, even with all the talent in the world.

And everyone favorite De Ligt is having same problem, he lacks speed, Pique lacks speed and same for Lenglet. Our defense can't work like that, we always need speedy CB. that has been the case for almost 17 years now. And last couple of games showed why.
If we have same defensive set up, we are again setting up kid for failure, at least for short run. And rumors that we will sell Umtiti if we sign him isn't encouraging since he is the only quick CB we had. That means either we don't care about quickness or we think injuries has taken it from him.

Hell, do we even know who call shots? Is it Abidal or Segura?

The list goes on and on. And EV will leave, but same shit will continue.
This was same reason I defended EV (and I stand to everything I previously wrote btw) because I've never believed in this squad nor the current stat of the club.
Cl was never the club top goal, they never really worked for it. It was always domestic success and he has delivered it. And even that won't last long in the future without a systematic change in the club.

 

[George_Costanza]

That is true.
But let's assume that EV is fired today.
Do you think that Barto and directors think the same as you?

Socios are older people and ALL they care are domestic titles.
Remember how EV acted in the first season when he rated LA Liga and CDR equally to a CL.

I don't live in Catalonia, but I have a feeling that due to Catalonia vs Spain political problems, for majority of Socios: winning in La Liga is more important than anything and it is a direct sporting wise, moral and political slap in the face to Spain and Madrid.
So, even though we suck in a CL, I guess that majority of socios and the board= are happy with winning La Ligas (and getting killed in a CL), as long as we are domestically better than mortal sporting&political enemies Real Madrid.
.

Again BBZ is getting all wrong! Socios? Who the fuck cares about those idiots except in the election year? Barcelona is a global brand now and most of the money we make comes from or influenced from outside of Catalonia. Are any of our major sponsors from Catalonia or Spain? No! Sponsorship, endorsement, commercial and broadcasting revenues are what’s paying Barto, the board, the management and the players their salaries. Matchday revenue generates the least money in this football revenue modern model. The more popular and successful football brand, the higher the commercial revenue’s percentage will be because these brands are in a position to negotiate more and better deals with their commercial partners. Clubs’ global popularity is an important indicator of their value. Winning just domestic trophies isn’t enough anymore. In fact, Barcelona became more powerful once it became a top European club winning 4 UCLs in the past decade or so. Lose those overseas fans, commercial, sponsorship, broadcasting revenues, and Barca won't be able to compete for the domestic trophies that are dear to those socios.

 

[tacticvarium]

I actually said that you need to have ONE Milner and not 10 guys with a nice guy mentality of Iniesta.
Of course that I would rather have Iniesta than Milner.
But on the other hand, I wouldn't have 10 guys with Iniesta's lack of a fighting spirit, regardless of his technique.

The point was, in matches like Roma, Liverpool, even Psg and Juve 2-3 years ago, even 10 Messis or 10 Iniesta won't help.
At 2:0 and 3:0, you could have seen "blood and desire" in the eyes or Origi, Henderson, Milner. Even in Klopp's eyes, he had that weird and arrogant/brave smile and look in his eyes all the time.

And yet, when camera was showing faces of Messi, Suarez, Busi, even EV, all I could see was: fuck, is it happening again? Oh, no, this shit again.
As in: =oh no, the nightmare starts again, We have been there 100s of times and we have no clue what to do and how can we avoid it. But we DO KNOW that we are screwed and that we'll probably lose again.
Something is mentally wrong in our team. Just look at that spark in the eyes of players of Roma/Liverpool vs our mentally drained older players.

So, one more time:
1. I don't think that Milner is better than Busi/Iniesta
2. I don't think that a football is a sport where you need to physically KO your opponents
3. but imo, you DO NEED some players with that more aggressive mentality, fighting spirit.
I personally do think that Barca is the softest team in that area. Nice guys who never fight, who never cause problems (in a positive way) and guys who too often sulk and dissapear when problems and rough moments come.

I mean, in the last 3 years, we were eaten alive and frightened in the same fashion against:
Psg 4:0
Juve 3:0
Roma 3:0
Liverpool 4:0

Shots on goal:
Psg 16:7
Juve 14:16
Roma 17:9
Liverpool 13:8

We have allowed 60 shots or 15 on average on those 4 nights.

As said, I had a feeling that if Liverpool needed 7 goals, they would have scored 7 yesterday.

No one is able to fight in tough moments.
I mean, in the last 10 minutes when we tried to attack, who was our leader, a guy who will yell and say: come on, come on, we can do it?
In the last 10 minutes plus 5 mins of extra time, we didn't try a single shot on goal, right (Or did Messi had one attempt)?

People will now say: it is on our coach, he reacted to late.
True.
But still, we had 10+5 minutes and we didn't create a single opportunity.
On the other hand, imagine if it was 1:0 for Liverpool in the 80th minute.
Do you know how the score would have ended in the end?
Probably 3:0 or 4:0 for Liverpool again.

They would somehow score 2-3 goals against us in the last 15 minutes in this or that way.
I can't put a finger exactly to what we are missing, but our team is missing shit ton of mental things: leaders, fighters, someone who will have faith and courage in the last 15 minutes when we need to score.

In that sense, I said that you need 1-2 Milners in a team and not a team full of Busis or Iniestas.
In these sudden death matches in these moments when one goal will decide your faith, a fighting spirit, motivation, self belief, leadership, momentum is often more important than a pure technique without any desire and self belief.

I'm actually surprised one can still manage to remain here after all those uselessly long bullshit cancerous posts.

 

[Judoman]

And who is that guy, is he available?

And if it was sarcasm, it's senseless.

Available?

We paid 150 mil for coutinho. We can pay 10 mil for a solid coach.

 

[khaled_a_d]

- Our attack is our weakest spot. They cannot keep the ball nor attack. They only can do the final touch. And they are not always good at it.

Been saying this for sometime, our attack is truly limited. Origi is probably better goalscorer than any Barca player not named Messi or Suarez. It is really pathetic.
That being said, midfield failed us badly too. They failed to protect defense or absorb pressure.
Also, for over 4 years now they fail to press other opponents. This was the most integral part of Pep's football during his time here. It wasn't the rondos, triangles and ball retention. But that we apply pressure way too fast that opponent can't make anything with the ball.
Only midfielder who has that is Vidal, not even 22 years old Arthur is pressing that much.

 

[messi2140]

Poor Valverde with a 1 billion euro squad and a bunch of 30 year old grandpa's. If only he was allowed to bench the senior players that were underperforming


The excuses are getting pathetic but its no surprise.

 

[henias]

Even Suarez is pathetic because this team has always been Messi-dependant. No doubt the midfield failed. Barcelona cannot play the sort of pressing and distance game, we fielded 3 DMs and expected to control the game? Coutinho is also slow as fuck to provide any threat during counter attacks. The starting lineup was already wrong, and worse the subs are a complete joke. No excuse.

What's the difference between last season and this season honestly speaking? Slow conservative football that cost us once again without any away goals to bail us out.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Again BBZ is getting all wrong! Socios? Who the fuck cares about those idiots except in the election year?

Any true Barca fans.
those are the only ones who can force change, those are the only ones that our board need to listen. They don't care about random people from US/Egypt/Croatia etc. Yeah they are source of money but they can't force change of faces.
Manu is having continual financial success while they struggle on the pitch, endorsements doesn't force changes. Not when the club is owned by the public and not by private investors.
I've said it in previous post, Socios follow Grupo Godó mouthpieces. In past election the voters were mostly senior citizen, those are the guys who thought getting Rossell is great idea and gave him biggest election win in club history. They voted for Bartou, they gave him confidence last summer. Everything looks ok to them, the most you get is some tourists whistling Coutinho.
if you want change, it isn't gonna happen with those guys voting for people they are told to vote to.

 

[MTL_Barca]

I actually said that you need to have ONE Milner and not 10 guys with a nice guy mentality of Iniesta.
Of course that I would rather have Iniesta than Milner.
But on the other hand, I wouldn't have 10 guys with Iniesta's lack of a fighting spirit, regardless of his technique.

The point was, in matches like Roma, Liverpool, even Psg and Juve 2-3 years ago, even 10 Messis or 10 Iniesta won't help.
At 2:0 and 3:0, you could have seen "blood and desire" in the eyes or Origi, Henderson, Milner. Even in Klopp's eyes, he had that weird and arrogant/brave smile and look in his eyes all the time.

And yet, when camera was showing faces of Messi, Suarez, Busi, even EV, all I could see was: fuck, is it happening again? Oh, no, this shit again.

As in: =oh no, the nightmare starts again, We have been there 100s of times and we have no clue what to do and how can we avoid it. But we DO KNOW that we are screwed and that we'll probably lose again.
Something is mentally wrong in our team. Just look at that spark in the eyes of players of Roma/Liverpool vs our mentally drained older players.

So, one more time:
1. I don't think that Milner is better than Busi/Iniesta
2. I don't think that a football is a sport where you need to physically KO your opponents
3. but imo, you DO NEED some players with that more aggressive mentality, fighting spirit.
I personally do think that Barca is the softest team in that area. Nice guys who never fight, who never cause problems (in a positive way) and guys who too often sulk and dissapear when problems and rough moments come.

I mean, in the last 3 years, we were eaten alive and frightened in the same fashion against:
Psg 4:0
Juve 3:0
Roma 3:0
Liverpool 4:0

Shots on goal:
Psg 16:7
Juve 14:16
Roma 17:9
Liverpool 13:8

We have allowed 60 shots or 15 on average on those 4 nights.

As said, I had a feeling that if Liverpool needed 7 goals, they would have scored 7 yesterday.

No one is able to fight in tough moments.
I mean, in the last 10 minutes when we tried to attack, who was our leader, a guy who will yell and say: come on, come on, we can do it?
In the last 10 minutes plus 5 mins of extra time, we didn't try a single shot on goal, right (Or did Messi had one attempt)?

People will now say: it is on our coach, he reacted too late.
True.
But still, we had 10+5 minutes and we didn't create a single opportunity.
On the other hand, imagine if it was 1:0 for Liverpool in the 80th minute.
Do you know how the score would have ended in the end?
Probably 3:0 or 4:0 for Liverpool again.

They would somehow score 2-3 goals against us in the last 15 minutes in this or that way.
I can't put a finger exactly to what we are missing, but our team is missing shit ton of mental things: leaders, fighters, someone who will have faith and courage in the last 15 minutes when we need to score.

In that sense, I said that you need 1-2 Milners in a team and not a team full of Busis or Iniestas.
In these sudden death matches in these moments when one goal will decide your faith, a fighting spirit, motivation, self belief, leadership, momentum is often more important than a pure technique without any desire and self belief.

Moments like these are fighting moments.
Where head, hearts and motivation usually win over technique.
That's why I mentioned Milner vs Busi as an example for fight.

But Valverde is a part of that exact problem. Could you EVER imagine Valverdes Barca (no matter what players you swap out) having that spark in their eyes like Liverpool?

Only way to play as a team again, with speed and passion is to replace some old players and the coach. All at one, this summer. If not will stay playing for national trophies only, while getting embarrassed over and over again in CL.

You said that's unrealistic and yeah it might be. But even then i'd take pretty much every solution over leaving everything as it is. At least lose spectacular in CL then instead of Ernies boring football. You always preached how that is the successful way to do it but it clearly isn't seeing how hard it bit us in the ass two years in a row and Barca doesn't need to play pragmatic defensive football to win league games.

 

[serghei]

We should make a serious analysis here. For a club like Barcelona, with our ambitions and resources, domestic success is great but insufficient in the end.

 

[George_Costanza]

Any true Barca fans.
those are the only ones who can force change, those are the only ones that our board need to listen. They don't care about random people from US/Egypt/Croatia etc. Yeah they are source of money but they can't force change of faces.
Manu is having continual financial success while they struggle on the pitch, endorsements doesn't force changes. Not when the club is owned by the public and not by private investors.
I've said it in previous post, Socios follow Grupo Godó mouthpieces. In past election the voters were mostly senior citizen, those are the guys who thought getting Rossell is great idea and gave him biggest election win in club history. They voted for Bartou, they gave him confidence last summer. Everything looks ok to them, the most you get is some tourists whistling Coutinho.
if you want change, it isn't gonna happen with those guys voting for people they are told to vote to.

Read my post again fully, don't just read the first sentence, I spoke about causality in the relationship between causes and effects. What the socios cares about? Domestic double, isn't it or according to BBZ? I answered this in my post and the club relationship with outside world.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Read my post again fully, don't just read the first sentence, I spoke about causality in the relationship between causes and effects. What the socios cares about? Domestic double, isn't it or according to BBZ? I answered this in my post and the club relationship with outside world.

I read it fully, and I've explained it with Manu example.
It will take a decade for the club to be affected in terms of salary. Bartou and co will be out of the club enjoying their retirement in Ibiza before it happens. The brand is already built and it will take long time for it to be affected from financial perspective

 

[Zidane82]

Maybe just maybe this was a good thing ..

We needed massive changes and I presume that boardroom talks are already ongoing.
If they don’t sack Valverde or give him the chance to resign in the next few days I fear for our future.

God only knows what kind of emotions FDJ is experiencing hours before one of his most important games .. poor guy