Ernesto Valverde - V1

[Stoichkov1]

It's true that Leganes had 10 shots against Barca but only 1 was a clear goalscoring opportunity.

 

[Neymessi]

Even those who watch all barca games seem to think we are doing great.

Its only when the start dropping points will people realize we aren't all that. I feel so dizzy watching our matches it like watching manu under LVG.

 

[Ousmane Dembélé]

10 points ahead of Madrid, looks like we're probably going to take the league with this absolutely disgusting brand of football, immense luck and godly goalkeeping.

Looks like Valverde has bought himself another year folks!

 

[unknowngenius10]

Right now we have to do what we can with what we have.

We need more signings.
We need one midfielder, a defender, and another striker.

The midfielder better be top class.

 

[MessiCam]

I'll repeat once more, in normal football, for all NORMAL football clubs ever, there is a saying: Champions are winning even when they aren't playing great and that is how you are winning trophies.
Around 2000's when Real won 3 CLs, they often played bad and were outplayed, but scored goals due to opponent's individual mistakes or by some individual magic (like Zidane's goal againt Leverkusen in a CL final 2002').

Papers back then even started to use the phrase "luck of champions".
I hope that you get what it meant.
For some reason, this or that way, they always found a way how to score and win, regardless of how good or bad they played.

Also, in numbers, this is my way of describing it, but for YOUNGER fans, who watched Barca only since 2009 or since 2006, this is how clubs can win titles:

1. playing 5/10 in terms of beauty and 10/10 efficient, style of Chelsea, Mourinho's teams, Atletico Madrid
2. playing 7-8/10 beautiful and winning trophies, let's say Cruijff's Barca, Van Gaal's Barca, Rijkaard's Barca
********************************************
3. and then, there is FC BARCELONA from 2009-2012, who was playing 10/10 beautiful, winning trophies 10/10 and breaking all possible records

Now, we raised the bar too high.
None team ever played as beautiful and as efficient as that Barca.
So, we shouldn't expect anything like that ever again.

Since we don't have prime Xavi-Iniesta in our team and Messi is 30 year old, our only ways to win trophies are:
1. playing 5/10 like Juve/Chelsea/AM and win trophies
2. or try to play somewhat beautiful, let's say 7-8/10 and win trophies

Current Barca is still playing way better than Mou's teams, Atletico and similar.
We aren't playing as nice as Cruijff's Barca, though.

No offense to anyone, but while reading posts: Barca sucks, this is unwatchable, sack Valverde for being +8 or +10 on top of table infront of RM, I have an impression that 90% of those posters are younger guys who are too spoiled by Pep's Xavi-Iniesta-Messi Barca and who think that those days are actually our standard and how we have always played like that, or at least close to that.

Again, you probably haven't watched Barca when our target man was a smurf Saviola and our key playmakers Riquelme and Fabio Rochemback.
A current season looks like heaven compared to some of those days. Both in terms of beauty, I won't even mention our number of points.

In short: mortal teams don't always outplay opponents (like Pep's Barca).
Mortal teams are winning:
1. due to being better on some days
2. due to being more experienced and scoring after opponent's rookie mistakes
3. winning when playing bad/mediocre due to an individual talent of their star players

Again, Barca during Pep was winning majority of matches with:
75% possession
20:5 in shots
4:0 score
Beautiful plays, domination, pure magic.

Well, there is a 99% chance that you won't ever again see that level at Barca.

You keep bringing this sort of thing up. I’ve watched Barcelona for the best part of 3 decades and the only time I can really say that Barça played unattractive football, like we are now is between 2000 and 2004. Of course there were other times when it was ugly too but never as consistently as this.

And nobody here is calling for us to play Pep football as you seem to insist on. Where did you get that idea from? That time has come and gone.

Valverde, yes, is achieving the results and other results are going his way but he is not developing a style 18 games into the god damned season already. We have actually regressed in terms of quality of play.

The notion that attractive football or a form thereof cannot be played with the crop of players is absolute hogwash and you know it. Just take a look at the earlier games of the season... What is happening, as another poster implied, is Valverde just going game by game. I don’t think there is one player that has bought into his vision apart from those he’s appeased through game time like Rakitic, Gomes and Suárez despite them stinking up the place.

His recent use of Messi leaves a lot to be desired too which is basically that of midfielder with no defensive duties. How he’s managed to take Messi’s best ever start to season and turn it into this pile of shit is beyond many. In his bid to appease Suárez (let’s not forget that there were rumours Suárez wasn’t happy with where he was having to play) he has taken the team’s best weapon and put him right in front of a brick wall in a manner that not even the Argentina coaches have managed over the years. Since his system change Messi has been less and less effective resulting in scoring 1 goal (which came from a run from deep) in the last 5 games.

With all that some are audacious enough to say Valverde’s hands have been tied due to Dembélé’s absence. He is still a kid for crying out loud and him coming back into the fold is only going to make Valverde’s job tougher because where does Suarez then fit in?

 

[Neymessi]

You keep bringing this sort of thing up. I’ve watched Barcelona for the best part of 3 decades and the only time I can really say that Barça played unattractive football, like we are now is between 2000 and 2004. Of course there were other times when it was ugly too but never as consistently as this.

And nobody here is calling for us to play Pep football as you seem to insist on. Where did you get that idea from? That time has come and gone.

Valverde, yes, is achieving the results and other results are going his way but he is not developing a style 18 games into the god damned season already. We have actually regressed in terms of quality of play.

The notion that attractive football or a form thereof cannot be played with the crop of players is absolute hogwash and you know it. Just take a look at the earlier games of the season... What is happening, as another poster implied, is Valverde just going game by game. I don’t think there is one player that has bought into his vision apart from those he’s appeased through game time like Rakitic, Gomes and Suárez despite them stinking up the place.

His recent use of Messi leaves a lot to be desired too which is basically that of midfielder with no defensive duties. How he’s managed to take Messi’s best ever start to season and turn it into this pile of shit is beyond many. In his bid to appease Suárez (let’s not forget that there were rumours Suárez wasn’t happy with where he was having to play) he has taken the team’s best weapon and put him right in front of a brick wall in a manner that not even the Argentina coaches have managed over the years. Since his system change Messi has been less and less effective resulting in scoring 1 goal (which came from a run from deep) in the last 5 games.

With all that some are audacious enough to say Valverde’s hands have been tied due to Dembélé’s absence. He is still a kid for crying out loud and him coming back into the fold is only going to make Valverde’s job tougher because where does Suarez then fit in?

Well said. Also Valverde defenders seem to think us getting results on the cost of playing beautiful football is something that is a plan from EV and that we must debate whether we like results more or attractive football.

Which is probably not the case at all. We are winning despite playing mediocre because we are lucky, not because its EV's genius that sacrifices good football for results.

 

[FCBfan22]

The problem that yesterday's game has shown is how isolated our full backs are if we play Paco-Messi-Suarez front line. When we played with Suarez-Messi-Deu/Denis, the opponent's defence was busy with covering the winger on the right, so they drifted a bit to their left, allowing Alba to penetrate their defence on the right. With 2 pretty static players in Paco and Suarez, they can just stay in position and defend, because Messi needs to pick the ball (because nobody will run the ball down the wings) in the middle of the field and the CB's can cover Paco and Suarez 1 on 1.

I really hope that we don't see this front line again.

 

[MessiCam]

Well said. Also Valverde defenders seem to think us getting results on the cost of playing beautiful football is something that is a plan from EV and that we must debate whether we like results more or attractive football.

Which is probably not the case at all. We are winning despite playing mediocre because we are lucky, not because its EV's genius that sacrifices good football for results.

Exactly. It’s not Valverde being a genius but rather poor finishing on behalf of the opposition and us getting lucky with scrappy goals a lot of the time.

He’s screwed over Messi, Semedo, Alba, Denis and Deulofeu with his narrow systems...

That’s all he’s done since the Girona game in his bid to please Suárez. Hope he’s happy now that Suarez scored 2 tap ins.

 

[Barcilliant]

It is going to be brutal when we lose in the CL.

It's true the squad is pretty shitty but even in our trophyless years we played better football.

 

[Barcilliant]

The problem that yesterday's game has shown is how isolated our full backs are if we play Paco-Messi-Suarez front line. When we played with Suarez-Messi-Deu/Denis, the opponent's defence was busy with covering the winger on the right, so they drifted a bit to their left, allowing Alba to penetrate their defence on the right. With 2 pretty static players in Paco and Suarez, they can just stay in position and defend, because Messi needs to pick the ball (because nobody will run the ball down the wings) in the middle of the field and the CB's can cover Paco and Suarez 1 on 1.

I really hope that we don't see this front line again.

BINGO!

But Valverde will give some obtuse logic for his line ups.

Add to this the dumbfuckery of the board who will not buy in January and what we have is a ticking time bomb.

 

[Ghostmaster]

People keep bringing up this luck thing, but did you know that we hit the woodwork 16 times this season? Woudn't that make us unlucky?

 

[Barcaman]

[tw]931936851308548097[/tw]

Valverde? More like , and

 

[FCBfan22]

People keep bringing up this luck thing, but did you know that we hit the woodwork 16 times this season? Woudn't that make us unlucky?

I am speaking about the last 5 games or so. We were playing incredibly well at the beginning of the season, where we also hit most of those posts and crossbars (especially Messi). Our shitshows started after the 1st Olympiacos game and we have only been punished for them away at Olympiacos. If Valverde fields the same players (minus Pique and with Vermaelen) against Valencia, I'm afraid that we will get a serious reality check in that game (our first loss in La Liga this season). But if he fields an 11 like this, with at least 1 true winger and without Rakitić, I would be optimistic.

-------------Ter Stegen------------
Semedo--Vermaelen-Umtiti--Alba
--------------Busquets-------------
------Paulinho--------Iniesta------
---------------Messi----------------
---Deulofeu------------Suarez-----

 

[khaled_a_d]

The board and director Robert played "all in" on 150-180M Dembele and Coutinho.

They discarded some other positions also to be able to go all in till the last minute.
Valverde probably believed that he will get Coutinho and Dembele.

Or, is EV guilty again?
He should have fought with the board (who gave him a job 30 days before that)?

Should he have said: don't buy Coutinho, give me Seri/Di Maria (who can't run) or some other options who were there for 50-80M?
Those players would have ruined our club and finances even more.

Coach job is to ask for a player with certain profile and may suggest names. It is the board job to get those players (whether exact names or alternatives)
What we knew? he asked for a midfielder (Verratti & Coutinho) and he asked for a CB (Inigo was his favorite) and for a Neymar replacement (and he is injured)
3 of our 4 problems this year is those 3 positions. Had we got him the midfielder he wanted, CB that would take Pique spot if he is bad or make him play better due to competition.

 

[hulinat]

No need to splash more money on semi-average players that we dont really need as theres plenty of talent in the squad as it is.

Misusing the players and ignoring the b team is the real problem and with a proper coach that would be solved.