Doping in Football

[Irish_Cules]

What's everyone's opinion on the matter? Is it going on at the top level? It appears that it is rampant in football but it being turned a blind eye to and that this has been the case for years. People are talking about the Fuentes trial but other than that it seems that everybody involved in football, including journalists just don't want to delve deeper into the matter.

I don't know if anybody here follows Giggs-Boson on twitter. He writes for the Huffington Post. He posts a lot about doping in football and 'advanced' treatment methods by top clubs in football. He posted a couple of interesting tweets the other night that got me thinking about the issue again.. Here are some of his tweets from the other night and over the last while.......


Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson 24 Apr
Neville: "When you watch teams nowadays, the energy they're able to use in games is unbelievable"


Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson 24 Apr
Why is it, in an age when players are playing more games than ever before in history, with higher intensity, they have far more game energy?



Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson 24 Apr
Of course, training methods have improved, but clubs training sessions during season not particularly intensive. Hard work done in preseason



Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson 24 Apr
I've posted extensively about big German clubs "progressive" medical methods on their players. Bayern doc pioneer of blood treatment.



Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson 24 Apr
Huge part of Bayern and Dortmund's game is energy and strength/power.


Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson 4 Apr
A few months after Alex Ferguson ordered him to leave Man Utd, Jaap Stam tested positive for anabolic steroids and was banned for 5 months.


Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson
Wilfried Kindermann former German national team doctor, 2006: "Wherever there is top sport, there is some trying to manipulate it... .I am skeptical of the fashionable dietary supplements, like creatine. For me it is only promoting the doping mentality"

Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson
Diego Maradona, 2011, about an Argentina WCQ v Australia in 1993 "The coffee was a bit mixed, so that we can run faster." Maradona said that FIFA vice-president, Julio Grondona, knew about the doping, but permitted it....Maradona: "Because otherwise Argentina would not make the World Cup qualifiers. This is fraud, and Grondona knew about it,"


Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson 30 Mar
Diego Maradona WC 1994, the cocktail of drugs found in his body: ephedrine, phenylpropanolamine, Pseudiephedrin, norephedrine, Metephendrin.


Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson 27 Mar
PRP blood spinning, used by doctor Bryan English in his time at Chelsea under Jose Mourinho, was on the WADA banned usage list when Mourinho talked of it's use on Arjen Robben in 2005.


Giggs-Boson @Giggs_Boson
PRP blood-spinning, criticized as a treatment by the likes of Arsene Wenger, but encouraged by Andre Villas Boas and Jose Mourinho has been off the WADA banned list since 2011. However, in 2010, Jose Mourinho on a Petr Cech injury before game with Inter: "Dr Needles... . (Bryan English) will do his magic"


Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson 3 Apr
109 players from the 2011 Under-17 World Cup in Mexico tested positive for P.E.D Clenbuterol, FIFA claimed it was due to contaminated meat.


Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson 3 Apr
Vavá, legendary Brazilian striker and goalscorer in two World Cup finals, claimed in his time with Palmeiras he was forced to dope.


Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson 3 Apr
1969, the first doping controls in Brazilian Serie A showed that up to 60% of players there used stimulants regularly.

Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson
Jean Marc Poupel,Le Havre medic '98:"The system [existing] in Italy, we adopted...if you accept the injections; you play, if not; you don't"

Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson 3 Apr
Zico during his time for Udinese, told how it was normal procedure to give "swapped" urine samples to the testers.




There are countless more I could post but I'm not bothered. I'm sure you all get the picture. It seems that its a part of football for a long time and continues to be. The line between 'advanced medical methods and training' and 'doping' is extremely thin and not clear. The authorities obviously want to keep it this way. They don't want a scandal. What's everyones opinon anyway? Is doping in football not as bad as cycling considering football is also down to skill and not just pure fitness?

 

[Kerrybai]

This is an interesting read, it looks at everything from Germany in 1954 to the Juventus team of the 90's and so on. It should be noted that it also refers to Guardiola who has in fact been clear 2 times since the incident. The drug he tested for was controversial as it could show up without a player knowingly taking a banned substance.

 

[Irish_Cules]

This is an interesting read, it looks at everything from Germany in 1954 to the Juventus team of the 90's and so on. It should be noted that it also refers to Guardiola who has in fact been clear 2 times since the incident. The drug he tested for was controversial as it could show up without a player knowingly taking a banned substance.

It's clearly everywhere. I suppose because football is not based purely on physique and fitness everybody tells themselves its alright to ignore it. I'm not really sure what to make of it all. I suppose I feel the same way as a lot of fans......I know it's happening but I don't want it to be confirmed and face up to the reality of it.

 

[footyfan]

Giggs-Boson

Is that really his name or is it a pun on The God Particle?

 

[Irish_Cules]

I think it's just a clear pun on the God Particle combined with Ryan Giggs (I'm guessing that anyway).



Anyway, today Eufemiano Fuentes was sentenced to 12 months in prison and handed a four-year sports doctor ban after being found guilty of endangering public health. He probably wont go to prison though and just get a suspended sentence.
The most interesting news though was that the judge ordered that all the blood bags and computer files that related to the trial be destroyed. I think it's pretty obvious that there's a cover up going on here and that some of those blood bags were footballers from La Liga.

 

[Deco 20]

Nah, they explained their reasons for that a while ago and it made a lot of sense.

 

[Irish_Cules]

Nah, they explained their reasons for that a while ago and it made a lot of sense.

I remember reading those reasons as well. Something to do with the trial being a case of endangering public health rather than doping in sport. Legally, it does make sense but the way in which requests for the identity of the blood bags to be revealed are quite suspicious, especially when the doctor has himself admitted to treating footballers. Revealing these identities would have allowed separate sports corruption investigations to be undertaken.

 

[Deco 20]

Yes, but the court is only there to judge criminal behaviour; any future Sport trials can't be allowed to interfere with the investigation. They also can't "innocent" people for things that were 100% within the law. Having Fuentes name his clients would be to accuse them of something which was legal based only on the words of one man. As for the blood bags I think it's partly the same reason coupled with the trial being over and the fear that they might be tampered.

I'm not as sure about the evidence part, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was standard procedure in cases like these.

 

[Irish_Cules]

Spanish anti-doping is appealing Judge's decision to destroy the evidence. The bags will be held in storage until the appeal is heard.

A few interesting tweets by Giggs_Boson on the matter, particularly in relation to Fifa. Why aren't they investigating all of this themselves?


Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson 11m
Huge cover-up clearly in process today at the highest levels of Spanish court system. Fuentes being made scapegoat. Amazing.



Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson 5m
FIFA's decision to make absolutely no investigation into Fuentes dealings, highly suspicious, there's plenty of links for them to look at.



Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson 5m
Former Real Sociedad chairman alleges involvement, Fuentes paper's show Sociedad on his accounts, yet FIFA claim no reason to investigate?



Giggs-Boson ‏@Giggs_Boson 5m
FIFA say they have no statement to make on the case, because Judge Santamaria, made no to reference to football. Even with Sociedad/Fuentes

 

[Kerrybai]

Yes, but the court is only there to judge criminal behaviour; any future Sport trials can't be allowed to interfere with the investigation. They also can't "innocent" people for things that were 100% within the law. Having Fuentes name his clients would be to accuse them of something which was legal based only on the words of one man. As for the blood bags I think it's partly the same reason coupled with the trial being over and the fear that they might be tampered.

I'm not as sure about the evidence part, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was standard procedure in cases like these.

Do you know much about doping in Spain regarding the law? When was it made illegal?

 

[JonM]

I think it's pretty clear that high profile spanish (and foreign) athletes were involved, mainly cyclists, tennis players and football players. Possibly Barça, Real Madrid and national team players. There's a ton of money and pride at stake so a cover-up is expected. Sports federations (FIFA, ITF, etc.) are putting their heads in the sand because a big doping scandal would mean saying bye bye to huge sponsorship deals.

 

[Kerrybai]

I have lifted this from another forum but it somewhat sums up my opinion regarding doping in football and why I don't think it's ublikely that it has been widespread in Spain or Europe over the last decade.

1. In cycling hwere its all about endurance, increasing a heamatocrit level from x to y will give a person an edge over his equally fit and hard training rival. It is the difference between winning and losing.

Not so in football. A bit of extra endurance is perhaps a benefit - but it wont turn "donkey's into thoroughbreds" as it does (famously) with cyclists. It wont improve your touch, your footballing brain, your ability.

2. The suggestion of a widespread culture of systematic doping at a club like Barcelona is attractive to people who watch them and want to find a reason why they're better than everyone else, but the reality is undertaking something like this free from the eyes of the authorities or press is mind boggling in terms of logistics.

 

[Hummelsbauer]

I have lifted this from another forum but it somewhat sums up my opinion regarding doping in football and why I don't think it's ublikely that it has been widespread in Spain or Europe over the last decade.

1. In cycling hwere its all about endurance, increasing a heamatocrit level from x to y will give a person an edge over his equally fit and hard training rival. It is the difference between winning and losing.

Not so in football. A bit of extra endurance is perhaps a benefit - but it wont turn "donkey's into thoroughbreds" as it does (famously) with cyclists. It wont improve your touch, your footballing brain, your ability.

2. The suggestion of a widespread culture of systematic doping at a club like Barcelona is attractive to people who watch them and want to find a reason why they're better than everyone else, but the reality is undertaking something like this free from the eyes of the authorities or press is mind boggling in terms of logistics.

It makes a huge difference for the pressing game.

 

[Hummelsbauer]

The decision to destroy the evidence is outrageous.

 

[FCBarca]

Lack of honesty in Spanish politics & judicial processes is not a new phenomena and it certainly isn't limited to Spain...but it reeks of a coverup