Denis Suarez

[JamDav1982]

Who denied Goretzka rumors? I've missed that..

Braida.

 

[MessiCam]

None of them have really being getting used as box to box midfielders though.

The 2006 that won the CL had a midfield based more on taller box to box players than this one.

It was only van Bommel. Anyway, the past is neither here nor there. Pep also used Seidou Keita to good effect. My issue is that Valverde has shown a clear preference for this type of player after he himself said that Barca’s style is sacrosanct. And for me it’s not about being used in that fashion or not it’s the difficulty they have in playing our game. For one, they struggle in tight spaces and releasing the ball in a timely manner. Look how angry Messi gets at them.

Look I don’t class Denis as a midfielder. He’s rubbish in the centre of midfield but he is very good on the wing whether that be as an impact player or starter. Apart from Messi he has been our best player in the final third and Valverde uses him when seeking goals and to good effect too. Now why would you want to rid yourself of your second best player from an attacking point of view and keep a bum like Gomes?

I know many don’t agree with me here but Valverde, from what I’ve seen and read from Busquets, is setting this team up defensively. Is that really where we want Barcelona headed?

 

[MessiCam]

Braida.

Wasn’t denied. He admitted interest but said he wasn’t ready. He doesn’t have final say either.

 

[JamDav1982]

Wasn’t denied. He admitted interest but said he wasn’t ready. He doesn’t have final say either.

He denied Barca were in for him by saying isnt ready.

 

[JamDav1982]

It was only van Bommel. Anyway, the past is neither here nor there. Pep also used Seidou Keita to good effect. My issue is that Valverde has shown a clear preference for this type of player after he himself said that Barca’s style is sacrosanct.

Look I don’t class Denis as a midfielder. He’s rubbish in the centre of midfield but he is very good on the wing whether that be as a an impact player or starter. Apart from Messi he has been out best player in the final third and Valverde uses him when seeking goals and to good effect too. Now why would you want to rid yourself of your second best player from an attacking point of view and keep a bum like Gomes?

I know many don’t agree with me here but Valverde, from what I’ve seen and read from Busquets, is setting this team up defensively. Is that really where we want Barcelona headed?

Wasnt only van Bommel. Edmilson played in that midfield as well. Likes of Marquez used in there also.

Not all were box to box players but that is irrelevant. There was more emphasis in power and height in 2006 midfield than there is now.

Busquets has not said team is set up defensively. He said they are playing solid and compact which is obvious and they have to be after taking beatings from good attacking sides in CL last year.

 

[MessiCam]

Wasnt only van Bommel. Edmilson played in that midfield as well. Likes of Marquez used in there also.

Not all were box to box players but that is irrelevant. There was more emphasis in power and height in 2006 midfield than there is now.

Busquets has not said team is set up defensively. He said they are playing solid and compact which is obvious and they have to be after taking beatings from good attacking sides in CL last year.

Of course it’s relevant. The argument is about a new found obsession with box to box players. Edmílson was DM through and through so that excludes him. Deco definitely wasn’t a box to box midfielder and Márquez was a CB.

In the last 30 years you won’t find any Barcelona squad filled with as many box to box midfielders as this one...

Busquets has made it clear that due to the loss of Neymar the system has been changed and that has led to less attractive footie but that they’re more compact. This is the very definition of a defensive setup.

 

[JamDav1982]

Of course it’s relevant. The argument is about a new found obsession with box to box players. Edmílson was DM through and through so that excludes him. Deco definitely wasn’t a box to box midfielder and Márquez was a CB.

In the last 30 years you won’t find any Barcelona squad filled with as many box to box midfielders as this one...

Busquets has made it clear that due to the loss of Neymar the system has been changed and that has led to less attractive footie but that they’re more compact. This is the very definition of a defensive setup.

There was more height and power in that 2006 midfield and those players you named are not playing as box to box players. So this 'last 30 years' part is irrelevant.

Where there was power and height and defensive ability in likes of Edmilson in 2006 at DM there is not that in Busi as much and is made up elswehere.

That 2006 midfielf had likes of Edmilson, MVB, Marquez at times, Thiago Motta. It was more focused on power and height than now.

Busi has made it clear team has become more compact which is obvious as were far too open against decent sides at times last season.

He has not said they are playing defensively. You have added that bit yourself.

 

[MessiCam]

There was more height and power in that 2006 midfield and those players you named are not playing as box to box players. So this 'last 30 years' part is irrelevant.

Where there was power and height and defensive ability in likes of Edmilson in 2006 at DM there is not that in Busi as much and is made up elswehere.

That 2006 midfielf had likes of Edmilson, MVB, Marquez at times, Thiago Motta. It was more focused on power and height than now.

Busi has made it clear team has become more compact which is obvious as were far too open against decent sides at times last season.

He has not said they are playing defensively. You have added that bit yourself.

Look man, you can have power and height and still have attributes other than that of a box to box midfielder by nature. Look at KdB, Arabist, Jorginho etc. And Edmílson and Motta are of similar build to Busquets so what’s your point?

Márquez was also only ever used as a DM when not as a CB.

Now please show me which Barcelona team has had as many box to box midfielders as this one... That they’re not being used as box to box midfielders is irrelevant. Ah, maybe that’s why they’re stinking up the place, because they’re expected to play roles that they don’t have the ability to.

 

[JamDav1982]

Look man, you can have power and height and still have attributes other than that of a box to box midfielder by nature. Look at KdB, Arabist, Jorginho etc. And Edmílson and Motta are of similar build to Busquets so what’s your point?

Márquez was also only ever used as a DM when not as a CB.

Now please show me which Barcelona team has had as many box to box midfielders as this one... That they’re not being used as box to box midfielders is irrelevant. Ah, maybe that’s why they’re stinking up the place, because they’re expected to play roles that they don’t have the ability to.

It is not about build. Edmilson was a physcial DM who was basically a CB decent on ball protecting defence. Much more physical and defensive minded than Busi. Thats why Marquez was used in there at times.

Barca dont have that in Busi so ignoring them doesnt give full picture of other players needed to make up that balance.

2006 team was built more on height and power than this one is.

Your point about 'box to box' is irrelevant as they are not being used like that and ignores the other players in team that sides had.

Can give you plenty midfields that were based less on ability on the ball and more on power and height.

You also lied about Busi saying team is defensive.

 

[gasgas]

Gomes is box to box? Which boxes exactly?
Isn't a box to box mid supposed to be good in both attack and defence, with high workrate to run from one box to another.

How is that Gomes?


Paulinho and Rakitic i agree

 

[MessiCam]

Gomes is box to box? Which boxes exactly?
Isn't a box to box mid supposed to be good in both attack and defence, with high workrate to run from one box to another.

How is that Gomes?


Paulinho and Rakitic i agree

Gomes is as box to box as you can get. He often played as DM as well.

Just because he stinks at Barcelona shouldn’t distract from his attributes.

 

[Joan]

Gomes is as box to box as you can get. He often played as DM as well.

Just because he stinks at Barcelona shouldn’t distract from his attributes.

What's wrong with box to box midfielders in the squad? Besides, Valverde insisted on playing trio of Rakitić, Busquets and Iniesta as long as it was possible, switch of formation was ment to help Suarez, not defence.
He has his flaw but I think he's doing fine with the players he's got.

Even Sport claims Goretzka won't come.

 

[BBZ8800]

It was only van Bommel.

In 2005 Champions league 1/8 knockout round, Mou's Chelsea:Rijkaard's Barcelona. First match 1:2, 2nd match 4:2
Barca's midfield:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2005/mar/08/minutebyminute.sport1
Xavi-Deco-Gerard Lopez, plus Iniesta as a RW.
4 Barca's short, physically weak midfielders.

We were EATEN ALIVE by Chelsea (does this sound familiar? We were eaten alive so many times in our history whenever we played with short midfielders against physical teams like Bayern, Atletico, Chelsea, Juventus, Psg, EXCEPT in Xavi-Iniesta era when those two dominated the world).
One of the worst nights ever for me personally as a Barca fan. Chelsea created 20 chances without any problems and they were leading 3:0 after 18 minutes (lol).

Next year, we faced Mou's Chelsea again in 1/4s.
I thought that we will lose again, but luckily Rijkaard learned the lesson (unlike majority of our fans here) and fielded Gomes-esque/Rakitic-esque midfield with:
Edmilson (186 cm)-Motta (187 cm)-Deco, AND he benched too attacking RB Belletti and played a CB Oleguer (187 cm) as an ultradefensive RB (more or less we played with 3 Cbs and a LB Van Bronckhorst).
This time, we played less attacking, less beautiful, with way more physical presence (Edmilson, Motta, Oleguer), we weren't bullied and pushed off easily all over the field AND we gain a lot of strength in random arial duels all over the field and on crosses and set pieces (Mou's strong weapon).
Result this time? 1:2 for Barca and Barca knocked out Milan in the same semi-defensive fashion with a cautious play and won a CL in the end.
We had Messi this time though.
Barca winning CLs in 100 years before Messi: once
Barca winning CLs in 10 years with Messi: 4
Some of you would have probably whined back then: Rijkaard needs to be sacked. We aren't playing Barca's style with short midfielders.

 

[MessiCam]

You guys seem to be of the opinion that every player with height and physicality is a box to box player...

If your argument is that you want physical presence in midfield then fine but don't argue that every player with height and strength is a box to box player.

Now, I ask again. When in the last 30 years has Barcelona had as many box to box midfielders as they do in this current squad?

 

[khaled_a_d]

You guys seem to be of the opinion that every player with height and physicality is a box to box player...

If your argument is that you want physical presence in midfield then fine but don't argue that every player with height and strength is a box to box player.

Now, I ask again. When in the last 30 years has Barcelona had as many box to box midfielders as they do in this current squad?

Who you consider box to box in the current squad? I would say only Paulinho is box to box without argument, but if you think Rakitic & Gomes are b2b too then many from the past qualify for that too