Daniel Alves

[Stric]

All this talk about contributions in offense is bollocks. Need I remind you that we have probably the best LB in the world playing on the other flank, and he's an attacking player by nature, with superb attacking contributions. Our club's best years came when we had an offense-minded Alves and a defense-minded Abidal on the other side. For f**** sake, we play three forwards, two attacking midfielders and at least one attacking fullback. If we can't make a sufficient contribution in offense with that, there's something wrong. Not only is it not a problem having one fullback who's more conservative in his movements, it's better for us. And this is not about Montoya. Even if we were to buy a new RB, we'd be better off buying a RB/CB type of player.

I'm so frustrated with him. He brings nothing. Nothing defensively, nothing offensively. All he does is lose the ball and then tracks back to foul the player he lost the ball to. And of course, those crosses..

Whoa, what?! That's new...

 

[JamDav1982]

All this talk about contributions in offense is bollocks. Need I remind you that we have probably the best LB in the world playing on the other flank, and he's an attacking player by nature, with superb attacking contributions. Our club's best years came when we had an offense-minded Alves and a defense-minded Abidal on the other side. For f**** sake, we play three forwards, two attacking midfielders and at least one attacking fullback. If we can't make a sufficient contribution in offense with that, there's something wrong. Not only is it not a problem having one fullback who's more conservative in his movements, it's better for us. And this is not about Montoya. Even if we were to buy a new RB, we'd be better off buying a RB/CB type of player.



Whoa, what?! That's new...

Totally disagree.

For me Luchos system is built on two attacking full backs who are more wingers than anything else.

Their offensive contribution is probably more important than their defensive.

 

[KingMessi]

Totally disagree.

For me Luchos system is built on two attacking full backs who are more wingers than anything else.

Their offensive contribution is probably more important than their defensive.

That doesn't mean that their defensive contributions don't matter. Alves doesn't quite get back like he used to in the past. But that's natural.

 

[Ursegor]

I'll just post 1 picture:

2 things to note.

1: Montoya, the "defensive-minded fullback", is positioned exactly as high up the pitch as Alba. Because Montoya, the "defensive-minded fullback", is not playing how he wants. Surprise, surprise. He's playing according to instructions of the coach. And those instructions are certainly not "stay back", "don't go forward", "be defensive".

2: Now, after seeing this picture, you tell me how it is a good idea to have Montoya stay back and "3 forwards, 2 AMs is enough". If Montoya stayed back it would immediately pull apart the shape of the entire team. Not only offensively would the right side be dead with Lucho demanding from his wide forwards to play more central. Also from a defensive perspective there is no point staying back when the rest of your teammates are so high up the pitch. If Montoya stayed back, let's say where Busquets is for example, there would be nothing but yards of empty space infront of him which Athletic Bilbao's LB/LW would use to accelerate and run at him with speed. It only makes it harder defensively for Barca. So: No, sorry. Barca plays in a very specific way and "fullback has to defend first and foremost" doesn't apply. Not in a classical sense that is. Pressing early and high up the pitch is the only viable option to defend when you are playing such a high line and Alves does that perfectly well. Even now never does he lack effort or energy.

You should also understand now why the central midfielders are split and playing so wide under Lucho. The team is geared towards the 3 big name forwards. You don't buy Suarez to glue him to the wing. You play him as central as possible where he can do the damage and link up with Messi. This in return requires the fullbacks to play very high up the pitch and provide width. Which in return requires some sort of defensive cover for the fullbacks and that is provided by the central midfielders playing wide. This system is not made for "defensive fullbacks" and that is why Lucho tried hard to get Cuadrado.

 

[Sumlit]

Excellent Ursegor.

 

[KingMessi]

Bravo Ursegor. :thumbsup2:

 

[Semi-Neutral]

1: Montoya, the "defensive-minded fullback", is positioned exactly as high up the pitch as Alba. Because Montoya, the "defensive-minded fullback", is not playing how he wants. Surprise, surprise. He's playing according to instructions of the coach. And those instructions are certainly not "stay back", "don't go forward", "be defensive".

 

[DonAndres]

Great post

 

[ViscaBarca914]

World champion for a reason

 

[Cule4life]

Ofc Barca FBs participate in offence. That doesnt mean they have no defensive duties. It seems people will say anything to defend their beloved Alves. So since Rakitic plays wide he alone has the responsibilty of defending against the likes of Kroos and Ronaldo while Alves jogs back? The current contribution of Alves in offense is a shadow of his former self (not to mention those infuriating crosses to wake up the upper tier spectators).

Havent we conceded enough cheap goals from Dani's side to finally learn to defend as a team? Just because we have a more workrate providing MF in Rakitic than Xavi and some height with Mathieu doesnt mean our defensive woes have finished. Just because you guys dont like Montoya's attacking contribution doesnt mean Alves is a flawless God.

We should have looked at someone like Aurier but then we do need him to spark another saga of wanting and failing to get a PSG player a couple of years later.

 

[Stric]

Oooh, let's all bow down to Ursegor for completely disregarding those parts of the posts he's quoting that don't fit his theory, then proceeding to prove his point anyway.

As I said, it's not about Montoya, and it's not about not attacking when needed. It's not about the attacking formation. It's about defending when needed, defending once that attacking formation dissolves, and Alves is shit in that regard. End of story.

 

[serghei]

Both of you, @Stric and @Cule4life, are gonna see Alves play a lot this season. You might as well learn to like it.

 

[Neeraj]

Lots of people talking about how he neglects his defensive duties. He did that earlier as well (though he used to have more pace to track back, often he was nowhere in sight). However, earlier he was the best full back in the world. His attacking and link up play was so good, you couldn't complain about the odd occassion we let goals in because of him, as he was invaluable up front.

My point is that his contribution ahead is pretty much ZILCH right now. I see Montoya making some strong runs and beating his man, and wonder what Alves does for us up front. Those who refer to his link up play with Messi, it's not the case anymore. He just tries to pass to Messi no matter what, and they generally exchange a few short passes before he eventually loses the ball (and then fouls the player he lost the ball to - just notice it from the next game).

So you cannot have a player who was never great in defence to begin with, one who has lost the pace factor to make up for being further up the pitch and one who provides nothing in attack. Think about if we played a proper winger in his place..Like any good winger...he would be great in attack and probably be as shit as Alves in defence..I'm not saying that's what we need to do, just pointing out the blatant problem we have.

 

[PhilS]

Great post, you make it clear how FB is primarily an offensive position on this team. The defensive improvement I've seen this year seems due to better d from Rak and Iniesta.

 

[Stric]

Lots of people talking about how he neglects his defensive duties. He did that earlier as well (though he used to have more pace to track back, often he was nowhere in sight). However, earlier he was the best full back in the world. His attacking and link up play was so good, you couldn't complain about the odd occassion we let goals in because of him, as he was invaluable up front.

My point is that his contribution ahead is pretty much ZILCH right now. I see Montoya making some strong runs and beating his man, and wonder what Alves does for us up front. Those who refer to his link up play with Messi, it's not the case anymore. He just tries to pass to Messi no matter what, and they generally exchange a few short passes before he eventually loses the ball (and then fouls the player he lost the ball to - just notice it from the next game).

So you cannot have a player who was never great in defence to begin with, one who has lost the pace factor to make up for being further up the pitch and one who provides nothing in attack. Think about if we played a proper winger in his place..Like any good winger...he would be great in attack and probably be as shit as Alves in defence..I'm not saying that's what we need to do, just pointing out the blatant problem we have.

Very true. People still talk about Alves' strong attacking, while in reality it's non existent most of the time. Just standing there on the flank and doing backpasses into infinity should not be considered a contribution in offense.