Cristiano Ronaldo - v1

[raskolnikov]

Who? You can't just give us an arbitrary number and leave us hanging without some names. Gerd Muller, Bican, Pele... Who else?

Romario?

Puskas, Di Stefano, Eusebio, daek, uwe seeler, mc grory, Nordahl, Peyroteo. For now purely based on numbers, means fuck all of course.
More goals doesnt mean you are a better striker, Larsson isnt a better striker than Henry,Drogba, Batistuta, Ronaldo or eto'o, despite having more goals, its logical.

 

[blaugrana1987]

You have a few, sure, 10? I very much doubt it.

1. Bican, Josef (Austria, Bohemia) 805+
2. Romário (Brazil) 772
3. Pelé (Brazil) 767
4. Puskás, Ferenc (Hungary) 746+
5. Müller, Gerd (Germany) 735
6. Deák, Ferenc (Hungary) 576+
7. Seeler, Uwe (Germany) 575
8. Willimowski, Ernst (Poland, Germany) 554+
9. Eusébio (Portugal) 552
10. McGrory, James (Scotland) 550
11. Binder, Franz (Austria) 546+
12. Peyroteo, Fernando (Portugal) 544
13. Sánchez, Hugo (Mexico) 541+
14. Walter, Fritz (Germany) 539+
15. Takacs II, Jozsef (Hungary) 523+
16. Zsengeller, Gyula (Hungary) 522+
17. Zico (Brazil) 522
18. Tulio „Maravilha“ (Brazil) 515+ *
19. di Stéfano, Alfredo (Argentina, Spain) 514+
20. Krankl, Johann (Austria) 514
21. Nordahl, Gunnar (Sweden) 513+
22. Roberto Dinamite (Brazil) 512
23. Greaves, Jimmy (England) 511
24. Bene, Ferenc (Hungary) 508+
25. Sarosi, Gyorg, Dr. (Hungary) 495+
26. Kocsis, Sandor (Hungary) 493+
27. Schlosser, Imre (Hungary) 489+
28. Larsson, Henrik (Sweden) 470+ *

 

[JamDav1982]

I'm not talking about Messi, I'm talking about 10-20 guys who scored more then Maradona.

You said at least 20 players have more goals than him but 'no one is better than Maradona'.

One of those 20 are and thats Messi.

 

[blaugrana1987]

You said at least 20 players have more goals than him but 'no one is better than Maradona'.

One of those 20 are and thats Messi.

Then I articulated my self wrong, I'm talking about 30+ other guys who scored more goals then Maradona yet they can't lace his boots. Its the same as Ronaldo, fourfourtwo had good article today about it. No service = no goals = no Ronaldo. Its not his form that is down, its that his team doesn't give him as many chances to score so he simply doesnt score as much.

 

[JamDav1982]

Then I articulated my self wrong, I'm talking about 30+ other guys who scored more goals then Maradona yet they can't lace his boots. Its the same as Ronaldo, fourfourtwo had good article today about it. No service = no goals = no Ronaldo. Its not his form that is down, its that his team doesn't give him as many chances to score so he simply doesnt score as much.

Of course its the case for players that the more chances their team mates produce the more goals they score.

Tell me this if it is all about chances created by team mates then why is there not more players doing what Ronaldo does?

It is hardly breaking news to suggest Ronaldos strengths lie in being a goal scorer.

 

[blaugrana1987]

Of course its the case for players that the more chances their team mates produce the more goals they score.

Tell me this if it is all about chances created by team mates then why is there not more players doing what Ronaldo does?

It is hardly breaking news to suggest Ronaldos strengths lie in being a goal scorer.

And my point is exactly that. The whole comparison was fabricated by media because two stand up players play for two biggest clubs, and now we are comparing them just by looking at one thing : goals. Still, there he is less impressive then Messi, and would be pretty much equal to Neymar had he took his penalties.

He scores less goals, he scores much less from open play, he takes TWICE as many shots, he dribbles far far worse (he is not top 50 in the world currently), he creates chances for his teammates much less and he is reliant on team delivering him crosses in 5 yard box yet he is compared to Messi just because he scores ton of goals. But thats why Messi is whole different level from glorified poacher that Ronaldo is today. While he is smaller and plays further from the goal, he still scores more and more efficient while delivering best performance as main playmaker for the team. He is whole other stratosphere in comparison...

There are more players doing that, but he is best of the rest. Benzema has 19 goals and 0 goals from penalty. Was he the main focus of the team and had he took those penalties he would be pretty much at Ronaldos rate of goals. Benz is of course worse finisher so he couldn't score that much, but he would be very close.

It tells alot when you score less goals yet have 12 more penalty goals then guy people compare you to.

 

[JamDav1982]

And my point is exactly that. The whole comparison was fabricated by media because two stand up players play for two biggest clubs, and now we are comparing them just by looking at one thing : goals. Still, there he is less impressive then Messi, and would be pretty much equal to Neymar had he took his penalties.

He scores less goals, he scores much less from open play, he takes TWICE as many shots, he dribbles far far worse (he is not top 50 in the world currently), he creates chances for his teammates much less and he is reliant on team delivering him crosses in 5 yard box yet he is compared to Messi just because he scores ton of goals. But thats why Messi is whole different level from glorified poacher that Ronaldo is today. While he is smaller and plays further from the goal, he still scores more and more efficient while delivering best performance as main playmaker for the team. He is whole other stratosphere in comparison...

There is no real rivalry though. I would wager at least 90% of fans and managers would have Messi as the better player while if asked to vote Messi would probably go down now as best ever.

But Ronaldo has still been far and away the second best player in the world in this Messi era and is much more than just goal poacher.

Like it or not for all that Messi is better than Ronaldo at Ronaldo had a bigger impact on the bigger games last season and deserved his balon dor.

It is up to Messi to take it back off him.

 

[blaugrana1987]

There is no real rivalry though. I would wager at least 90% of fans and managers would have Messi as the better player while if asked to vote Messi would probably go down now as best ever.

But Ronaldo has still been far and away the second best player in the world in this Messi era and is much more than just goal poacher.

Like it or not for all that Messi is better than Ronaldo at Ronaldo had a bigger impact on the bigger games last season and deserved his balon dor.

It is up to Messi to take it back off him.

I am sure of that, I've actually never heard footballer or coach that is regarded as good to say otherwise. Even his teammates cant say that with straight face.

And on that point of last years Ballon D Or. He deserved it, don't know what he exactly delivered in big games. Ramos and Bale where the one who delivered the goods, and his WC adventure was laughable, but I've never said he didn't deserve it. All I'm saying this makes big disservice to Messi to even be compared to him just because both score ton of goals. They are exactly worlds apart when both are playing at their best. I have eyes, and Ronaldo can't do 1/10th of what Messi does on the pitch and its not his fault. Messi is just better then anyone who has ever played this game.

 

[Morten]

1. Bican, Josef (Austria, Bohemia) 805+
2. Romário (Brazil) 772
3. Pelé (Brazil) 767
4. Puskás, Ferenc (Hungary) 746+
5. Müller, Gerd (Germany) 735
6. Deák, Ferenc (Hungary) 576+
7. Seeler, Uwe (Germany) 575
8. Willimowski, Ernst (Poland, Germany) 554+
9. Eusébio (Portugal) 552
10. McGrory, James (Scotland) 550
11. Binder, Franz (Austria) 546+
12. Peyroteo, Fernando (Portugal) 544
13. Sánchez, Hugo (Mexico) 541+
14. Walter, Fritz (Germany) 539+
15. Takacs II, Jozsef (Hungary) 523+
16. Zsengeller, Gyula (Hungary) 522+
17. Zico (Brazil) 522
18. Tulio „Maravilha“ (Brazil) 515+ *
19. di Stéfano, Alfredo (Argentina, Spain) 514+
20. Krankl, Johann (Austria) 514
21. Nordahl, Gunnar (Sweden) 513+
22. Roberto Dinamite (Brazil) 512
23. Greaves, Jimmy (England) 511
24. Bene, Ferenc (Hungary) 508+
25. Sarosi, Gyorg, Dr. (Hungary) 495+
26. Kocsis, Sandor (Hungary) 493+
27. Schlosser, Imre (Hungary) 489+
28. Larsson, Henrik (Sweden) 470+ *

You said "better goalscorers" not "players with more goals", its not neccessarily the same. Many greats on the list no doubt, however, quite a few of them played in joke leagues compared to european top leagues today.

 

[dakt]

There are more players doing that, but he is best of the rest. Benzema has 19 goals and 0 goals from penalty. Was he the main focus of the team and had he took those penalties he would be pretty much at Ronaldos rate of goals. Benz is of course worse finisher so he couldn't score that much, but he would be very close.

Exactly.:thumbsup2:

 

[KingMessi]

But Ronaldo has still been far and away the second best player in the world in this Messi era and is much more than just goal poacher.

Far and away the second best forward in the world maybe. But in terms of second best player in the world, Xavi and Iniesta ought to be considered as well.

 

[blaugrana1987]

You said "better goalscorers" not "players with more goals", its not neccessarily the same. Many greats on the list no doubt, however, quite a few of them played in joke leagues compared to european top leagues today.

So what makes good goalscorer if not scoring goals? Because if its efficiency there are 50 more for the list since Ronaldo takes ridiculous amount of shots through his career to score that amount.

Gerd Muller is regarded as one of the greatest goalscorers ever. He played in Europe and German National Team, so he was big time player. Scored 700+ yet no one mentions him in top 10. Look, I know you guys have to have someone big on your team since you are one of the worlds biggest clubs. But when its all said and done, Messi will comfortably be n1, while Ronaldo will be very lucky to be in top 5. He won't, the hype will die and people will let go of their emotions and see that for last few years all he was is Inzaghi "on steroids" since he knew thats the only way he can keep up with Messi.

 

[KingMessi]

Puskas, Di Stefano, Eusebio, daek, uwe seeler, mc grory, Nordahl, Peyroteo. For now purely based on numbers, means fuck all of course.

More goals doesnt mean you are a better striker, Larsson isnt a better striker than Henry,Drogba, Batistuta, Ronaldo or eto'o, despite having more goals, its logical.

Thanks. I wasn't trying to dispute his claim. More interested in learning. :thumbsup2:

 

[blaugrana1987]

Far and away the second best forward in the world maybe. But in terms of second best player in the world, Xavi and Iniesta ought to be considered as well.

Neymar is better player then Ronaldo is. Iniesta and Xavi were as well few years back. People don't remember but Messi took his BdOrs by huge majority of votes and sometimes Ronaldo wasn't even in top 3. Its nothing wrong to say that this year there are many players better then him (Neymar, Modrić, Hazard etc). He had stinker today but one moment of schalke s brainfart was enough for him to nick a goal. Had he not scored, we would talk about him doing shit all.

 

[JamDav1982]

There are more players doing that, but he is best of the rest. Benzema has 19 goals and 0 goals from penalty. Was he the main focus of the team and had he took those penalties he would be pretty much at Ronaldos rate of goals.

Possibly but then Neymar if given the penalties and set pieces from Messi there would not be much in it in terms of goals scored this season either.