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Barcilliant

Senior Member
This motherfucker is becoming too clutch for our good. Past three or four years he always seems to deliver when required. It's incredibly irritating for us Barca fans. Especially when you see an uninspiring Messi stroll around while we get dumped out of the cl.

They say insecurity if chanelled can lead to greatness. This applies in spades to Ronaldo. In terms of narural talent he's way behind Messi. However even at 34 he's still driven. Gotta take your hat off to him for that. Otherwise I loathe him.
 

Raketa10

Senior Member
One thing is for sure, he definitely knows how to prepare himself for a knockout stage of CL and he utilizes his teammates perfectly. That's something Leo doesn't know how to do. If he wins another CL this year Messi will be questioned as a GOAT for sure.
 

mobster_1930

New member
Talk about Zidane, Modrić, Ramos, Marcelo etc how much you want, but he was the key factor in RMA winning all these CLs in recent years. Currently greatest player in the history of CL, hands down. If he wins another CL this year with Juve I don't think no one would be able to tell with straight face that Messi is unquestionable GOAT. Dream scenario would be Barca-Juve finals and Messi delivering it. If that does not happen, or Barca gets knocked out again and Juve goes all the way I wont complain much because I wouldn't have arguments when someone says CR is GOAT, 6 CLs and he was key player in all of them. He's definition of clutch in CL. Messi is not.
 

George_Costanza

Active member
Talk about Zidane, Modrić, Ramos, Marcelo etc how much you want, but he was the key factor in RMA winning all these CLs in recent years. Currently greatest player in the history of CL, hands down. If he wins another CL this year with Juve I don't think no one would be able to tell with straight face that Messi is unquestionable GOAT. Dream scenario would be Barca-Juve finals and Messi delivering it. If that does not happen, or Barca gets knocked out again and Juve goes all the way I wont complain much because I wouldn't have arguments when someone says CR is GOAT, 6 CLs and he was key player in all of them. He's definition of clutch in CL. Messi is not.

How one game changes the whole season preception. This is why Ballon d'Or voters usually vote for Ronaldo. They watch a few big games and think he is the goat, while the player who is goating week in and week out saving his team and the pathetic manager, single handedly winning them trophies every year is quickly forgotten.

Ronaldo knows the Ballon d'Or formula very well and he is only playing for that.

Not to take any credits away from him. The way he entered the pitch in the second half, the camera was focusing on him, you can tell from his facial expression and body language that he was charged and going for it.
 

Marchisio8

Banned
He rested during the weekend :coffee:

Messi (and Suarez) should learn.

Obviously when you play non-stop and have played the most mins in Juve, then you need some rest. I know you think of him as a god, but Ronaldo is also human.

Also Ronaldo have played more mins than Suarez and Messi. Actually played around 400 more mins than Messi this season so far.
 

Vilarrubi

New member
Obviously when you play non-stop and have played the most mins in Juve, then you need some rest. I know you think of him as a god, but Ronaldo is also human.

Also Ronaldo have played more mins than Suarez and Messi. Actually played around 400 more mins than Messi this season so far.

This should put the “we needed rest” excuses to bed if we fail tonight.
 

Donatello

Active member
Obviously when you play non-stop and have played the most mins in Juve, then you need some rest. I know you think of him as a god, but Ronaldo is also human.

Also Ronaldo have played more mins than Suarez and Messi. Actually played around 400 more mins than Messi this season so far.

That's the point. Messi and Suarez played 3 days prior to CL tie, versus a bottom level team, which could have been easily avoided, while CR7 took a break because CL match had much more importance.

Most of us won't even bother if we win against Lyon. But the point is, we never learn. We want to give 100% every time, which is a good thing in general, but costs us in the CL.
 
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BBZ8800

Senior Member
I watched some CR7's and Messi's CHAMPIONS LEAGUE goals from the last few seasons to try to find more patterns WHY is CR7 scoring all the time and Messi isn't.

I am really starting to believe that football and defending are different in CL knockout rounds compared to La Liga.
As said in some other topics, for La Liga, Barca's and Pep's style is the best: keep the ball, keep possession, play shortpassing-technical football through the middle.
Against weaker and midtable La Liga teams, that approach is more efficient than hurling crosses and playing direct (CR7's Real Madrid).

But, when it comes to matches against Atletico, Juve, Bayern, English teams, our football (and Messi) aren't that lethal anymore and suddenly RM's and CR7's type of football is turning into a more efficient weapon.

As said before, the most obvious reason is that CR7 can score BOTH with feet and with head after crosses.
While Messi and Barca can score only with FEET.
So, in a CL against big boys, RM and CR7 had 2 scoring options, while we have only one (passing through the ground).

But now I am seeing one more pattern:
In a CL, majority of CR7's goals are scored in the same way:
RM's midfield would get the ball from their own half into the opponent's half.
But in a final 3rd, they would mostly pass the ball to their WINGERS, who would then throw crosses for CR7 in the box or they would try low crosses/passes for CR7 who is attacking the box.
So, majority of passes/crosses/assists for CR7 are coming from wing's positions.

With Barca and Messi, there is a difference in our build up:
RM used their midfielders to get the ball to a final 3rd.
And once when the ball is THERE, they would usually use their wingers and fullbacks as main passers into the box.

With Barca:
We use our midfield to get the ball into the opponent's half.
But then, unlike Real, we AREN'T using wingers as key playmakers, but we usually KEEP on playing through the middle both in the edge of the box and in the box.

So, passes/crosses for CR7 come from wings positions. His shots/goals are 1 or 2 touch shots, he don't keep the ball too much.
Plus, in majority of goals in these type of actions, he is left isolated 1 vs 1 or ALONE against defenders.
So, in CR7's type of actions/goals, he ALMOST NEVER have to score/shoot surrounded by 2-3-4 defenders.

On the other hand, Barca and Messi, we are passing EVERY SINGLE ball to Messi.
And he is rarely attacking the box and the most often he is WAITING for the ball at the edge of the box.
So, instead of attacking a box, he is waiting at the edge of the box with the idea: I will get the ball, surrounded by 4 opponents and I will somehow score.

Again, our tactics work in La Liga since the opponents are technically, tactically and physically weaker.
But as our last few CL exits has shown (Bayern 0:4, Atletico 0:1, Atletico 0:2, Psg 0:4, Juve 0:3, Roma 0:3), we are quite easy to neutralize in a CL with that one-dimensional, slow and predictable approach:
1. passing through the middle
2. passing every ball to Messi
3. Messi trying to score surrounded by 3-4 opponents at the edge of a box
4. Messi being able to score only with feet
5. due to a nature of our slow possession game, whenever we attempt a shot, an opponent usually has 8-9-10 defenders in the box, unlike in CR7's case where he is marked by 0, 1 or 2 players at most

Now, for example, take a look at some of his compilation CL's videos.
80-90% goals are scored in that way: pass the ball to a flank in the final third, play fast, CR7 will attack the box, a cross/low cross will create a huge havoc in the box, he will usually stay alone or 1 vs 1 with a defender and that's it.
Also, CR7 almost NEVER has to score against 10 defenders in the box, because his team plays faster and isn't forcing/inviting an opponent to park a bus in their box:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HafYtNCDvc8

And then, Messi's goals where he needs to score EVERY SINGLE goal with:
1. dribbling through 2-3-4 defenders to actually GET into a chance to finally shoot on goal
2. or scoring after an action THROUGH THE MIDDLE (1-2s or through balls from midfielders), where again, our passes are coming from the middle and from midfield players and very rarely from wings positions.
Cule4Life or someone will reply: that is due to Ernie NOT playing wingers.
But imo, the truth is: this is how Messi's teams are playing.
Messi played the same for the last 5-6-7 years and he plays the same for Argentina.
He is just dropping deep and roaming as some sort of Cam, false 9, playmaker, "10".
And when he gets the ball, he is 30 meters away from a goal.
While, when CR7 gets the ball, he is like 5 meters away from a goal with only a goalkeeper infront of him.

So, basically, for Messi to score, he needs to make a wonder and dribble past 3-4 players.
While CR7's goals look like simple (and not too magical or hard) tap ins.
But then again, imo, Messi needs to score magic goals BECAUSE we are FORCING the opponents to defend that way against us and since we don't have other weapons than to score through the middle after some magical action:

In a CL, Messi can't score "simple tap ins" due to a nature of our style and his style.
For him to score, he needs to pull a magic and dribble past 3-4 defenders and then execute a perfect shot and through the legs of 2-3 defenders and to finally beat a goalkeeper.
It seems as if he has to do everything, give 200% PLUS also to get lucky in that action to actually score.
On the other hand, CR7 is scoring for fun in a CL due to his physique, positioning, off the ball movement, nature of his game and passing patterns of his teams.

Sadly, on a highest level, it is WAY EASIER to mark and neutralize Messi than CR7.
 
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henias

New member
This should put the “we needed rest” excuses to bed if we fail tonight.

It isnt about comparing just overall minutes, but we always fail in the CL because there isnt a enough rests PRIOR to the big games. Messi can rest 5 games at the start of the season, but play every match during our hectic and toughest period can still yield the same result. 3 days before a crucial CL tie and still played a full 90 is nonsensical. At least he rested before the Chelsea game last season and delivered.

Messi definitely played lesser because he was out for a few games. Had he not been injured I can guarantee hew wpuld have played all of them. Hence much lesser than Ronaldo.
 

Cule4life

The Culest
Now all the Ronaldo fangirls around the office would be insufferable. With that diva and his fangirls involved, there's no respite even after the match his over.

Hey [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] your dear Valgreen also plays one dimensional football which you keep harping on about. Please tell us you have changed your mind about Malmierda so that we stop doubting your sanity.

You are already halfway through your recovery from your workhorse fetish. Keep going :valverde:
 
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Judoman

Senior Member
it depends.. for example imho Ronaldinho was the most talented and entertaining footballer ever yet we never put him in GOAT status because he was only at the top for a few years. Ronaldo, while dull and boring to watch, gets the job done and wins time and time again.

Agreed, to me Ronnie was closest to Messi level of talent out of all legends.

Regarding goat status..

There will never be consensus.
It s about personal perspective and taste, prejudices..it s not objective and will never be.
 
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