Bayern Munchen

[Morten]

Hopefully he can be. But he's still to young to have those sorts of expectations imo

Meh, i have gotten used to Barca having one generational talent after the other(homegrown or otherwise), without even the smallest break, so nothing would surprise me, Fati is probably scoring 50 goals a season within a couple of years, just how the world works.

 

[serghei]

That is very true, Barca was always a galactico oriented team.
Even Gaspart and Nunez argued that Barca should have been club of the century because we had more super stars than Real Madrid

And the argument against it, is same arguments forum de amigos always blasted bbz and wondered why he is Barca fan.

I see. And VHS cassettes were amazing in the 90's until they became obsolete when the DVDs appeared. And CDs and DVDs became obsolete when USB flash drives and internet video streaming appeared.

Point is you have to adapt to the trends. The Galactico model became extinct the moment the prices became unreasonable. We have to stop thinking buying super-expensive players is the way to go at building a team. It's what got us into this hole.

Best teams in the world by a distance are Liverpool, and Bayern. Anti-galactico teams.

 

[khaled_a_d]

I see. And VHS cassettes were amazing in the 90's until they became obsolete when the DVDs appeared. And CDs and DVDs became obsolete when USB flash drives and internet video streaming appeared.

Point is you have to adapt to the trends. The Galactico model became extinct the moment the prices became unreasonable. We have to stop thinking buying super-expensive players is the way to go at building a team. It's what got us into this hole.

Best teams in the world by a distance are Liverpool, and Bayern. Anti-galactico teams.

Well, it is a wrong point, as simple as that.
Who won last CL titles?
You can bring Bayern team, but other teams?
Liverpool? Had a historical front 3, Salah and Mane are arguably top 3-5 attackers in the world.
RM? BBC.
Barca? MSN, Messi & Xaviesta before it.
Bayern? Robbery.


It has been always that teams with super stars are the most dominant, always has been and always will be. there is no way around it. No argument you can make that will make sense.
A 1 year exception in unprecedented circumstances, with a team that still having best player in the world this year (Lewa) while facing a team with biggest 2 transfers in the history during the final doesn't change that.


It isn't about super expensive players, it is about having a top 5 attacker that can create a difference by himself.
We will be always able to attract that type of players, otherwise we will lose the fan-base quicker than the Calcio downfall in the 21st Century.
Whatever the way we make those super star, spending big, getting bargains, La Masia. We aren't gonna win anything meaningful without them. Not Cl, not la Liga against strong opponents, not even same economical advantage.

 

[Andrew M]

^^^^It's a valid point that we don't have to acquire the star(s) via massive spending. Either way Barca should always have at least one box office superstar like Figo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Messi, Neymar etc..

 

[serghei]

Well, it is a wrong point, as simple as that.
Who won last CL titles?
You can bring Bayern team, but other teams?
Liverpool? Had a historical front 3, Salah and Mane are arguably top 3-5 attackers in the world.
RM? BBC.
Barca? MSN, Messi & Xaviesta before it.
Bayern? Robbery.


It has been always that teams with super stars are the most dominant, always has been and always will be. there is no way around it. No argument you can make that will make sense.
A 1 year exception in unprecedented circumstances, with a team that still having best player in the world this year (Lewa) while facing a team with biggest 2 transfers in the history during the final doesn't change that.


It isn't about super expensive players, it is about having a top 5 attacker that can create a difference by himself.
We will be always able to attract that type of players, otherwise we will lose the fan-base quicker than the Calcio downfall in the 21st Century.
Whatever the way we make those super star, spending big, getting bargains, La Masia. We aren't gonna win anything meaningful without them. Not Cl, not la Liga against strong opponents, not even same economical advantage.

Liverpool didn't buy Galacticos. What are you talking about, when they signed Mane, Firmino, and Salah they were the profile of the players we need to sign now. Hard working, hungry and "normally talented" players who don't cost nearly 100m or more because of the hype around them somehow make dumb teams think they are the 2nd coming of Ronaldinho.

Liverpool is a great example that you don't have to buy superstars to form a great team. They signed their front 3 from Hoffenheim, Southampton and Roma. Top players, but ones that flew under the radar for some reason. They had to do that because at the time they really didn't have leverage when coming up against bigger teams trying to land players. Liverpool were a Europa League team back then, regularly finishing 6th or something in England. But they upped their scouting and landed the players THEY believed they were the right pieces for what they were trying to build. Having a manager and a staff that know what they want and know how to spot quality where others don't see it that much are the key elements. Not whether the player is perceived as a superstar or not.

We should have been after Timo Werner for example. He's in the area that Firmino was at Hoffenheim, only more highly rated. Cheaper and better than Lautaro, with elite mentality.

So, forget about Galacticos. It's a losing strategy. Top staff + smart buys (cost - performance ratio) that fit your masterplan (where you see the team in 2 years or so) are where it's at. We're in this mess because we dictated public image, and marketing to decide which players are worth buying or not.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Liverpool didn't buy Galacticos. What are you talking about, when they signed Mane, Firmino, and Salah they were the profile of the players we need to sign now. Hard working, hungry and "normally talented" players who don't cost nearly 100m or more

Again: It is not about SIGNING,it about HAVING a super star. A player whose individual brilliance can change game by himself.
Liverpool surely had this, with Salah who was one of the most expensive players in EPL history, and one of the best players in Calcio when he was signed. There were only 2 players who cost 100m when he signed. Along with Mane who were their most expensive signing. At least one of them were Ballon contenders during their run.
Messi/Xavi/Iniesta were academy players, but they were box office and super stars.

So, stop deflecting the arguments. Because, again, no team will win without having that individual brilliance in them. Whatever the way you get that player.

 

[serghei]

Again: It is not about SIGNING,it about HAVING a super star. A player whose individual brilliance can change game by himself.
Liverpool surely had this, with Salah who was one of the most expensive players in EPL history, and one of the best players in Calcio when he was signed. There were only 2 players who cost 100m when he signed. Along with Mane who were their most expensive signing. At least one of them were Ballon contenders during their run.
Messi/Xavi/Iniesta were academy players, but they were box office and super stars.

So, stop deflecting the arguments. Because, again, no team will win without having that individual brilliance in them. Whatever the way you get that player.

I think you confused the points I was making. I didn't imply that we need to be like Granada and have a team with hard workers with no quality lol. I think I made it clear that it's the Galactico model of signings that I'm against. And Liverpool and Bayern are the models to follow for us.

So, I'm not deflecting anything.

 

[FC433]

Looks great!

 

[Vilarrubi]

Looks great!

Strong.

 

[serghei]

Strong.

A serious team. I think it's nearly on par with their 2013 team. Only a tad weaker imo. Mainly because of players like Robben, Schweinsteiger and Lahm. They do lose quite a bit of game organization, technique and creativity with the Thiago affair though imo.

 

[KingLeo10]

A serious team. I think it's nearly on par with their 2013 team. Only a tad weaker imo. Mainly because of players like Robben, Schweinsteiger and Lahm. They do lose quite a bit of game organization, technique and creativity with the Thiago affair though imo.

Neuer's level in 2013 was immense (even compared to his current self who is still easily top 2 in the world).

Lewandowski is a whole tier above Mandzukic/Gomez. Maybe two. Advantage 2020.

Robbery that season were a whole tier above Gnabry/Sane. Maybe two. Advantage 2013.

Midfield is a definite advantage to 2013 now that Thiago is gone.

Defense is about even, maybe a slight edge to 2013 because Lahm and Boateng in their primes.

I think the standard has dropped so low in Europe that great but not historically great teams seem seemingly invincible. I don't think Liverpool of late or Bayern 2020 are quite at the level the big 3 were at various points (Barca CL winning teams, RM 2017, Bayern 2013).

 

[serghei]

Neuer's level in 2013 was immense (even compared to his current self who is still easily top 2 in the world).

Lewandowski is a whole tier above Mandzukic/Gomez. Maybe two. Advantage 2020.

Robbery that season were a whole tier above Gnabry/Sane. Maybe two. Advantage 2013.

Midfield is a definite advantage to 2013 now that Thiago is gone.

Defense is about even, maybe a slight edge to 2013 because Lahm and Boateng in their primes.

I think the standard has dropped so low in Europe that great but not historically great teams seem seemingly invincible. I don't think Liverpool of late or Bayern 2020 are quite at the level the big 3 were at various points (Barca CL winning teams, RM 2017, Bayern 2013).

Also, Ribery was a great player as well back then. Imo the 2013 is stronger, maybe more than just a tad. More individually better players with the same team qualities. Also, Germany were 2014 World Champions, with that Bayern skeleton as well.

 

[Richard.H]

That Bayern 2013 is incredibly underrated. They took a prime Barca to the cleaners 7-0. You just cannot compare this Barca to the one back then.

 

[KingLeo10]

That Bayern 2013 is incredibly underrated. They took a prime Barca to the cleaners 7-0. You just cannot compare this Barca to the one back then.

That was not a prime Barcelona lol. Let's not oversell it. That 12/13 Barcelona was a minnow basher who lost to the likes of AC Milan and got whooped by RM all year. Xavi was finished by then and Messi was injured/not playing from PSG onwards.

It was a distinctly better Barcelona than the current carcass though, that much is true. There's not a chance they beat our 08-12 and 14-15 teams (prime barcelona for most people) by 7 goals.

 

[Morten]

That was not a prime Barcelona lol. Let's not oversell it. That 12/13 Barcelona was a minnow basher who lost to the likes of AC Milan and got whooped by RM all year. Xavi was finished by then and Messi was injured/not playing from PSG onwards.

It was a distinctly better Barcelona than the current carcass though, that much is true. There's not a chance they beat our 08-12 and 14-15 teams (prime barcelona for most people) by 7 goals.

12/13 Barca was so weird, cruised to the league title with joint record of 100 point, yet looked terrible against every team above a certain quality.