Arthur
- Thread starter Jair Ventura
- Start date
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MessiCam
Guest
Yeah, I’ve seen better games from him. The quality of his passing and his ability to make himself available as a passing option is top notch...
Saw the first full game of him today. Difficult to say anything when it was his first game in a long time. But I like what I see. Miss some through balls but guess it will come with time. How do you rate him among the top midfield talents?
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MessiCam
Guest
I’ve watched quite a few of his games now and I would compare him to the De Jongs and Aouar’s at this stage.
What I do know is that he is fantastic with and without the ball. He almost never gives it away cheaply. He needs work on his offensive contribution but if you looking for a controlling influence then he’s the guy you give the ball to.
With decent playing time and a manager willing to invest in him he’s the type of talent that will put Rakitic on the bench whether that be as a double pivot or part of 3 man midfield.
He is that good in my opinion.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
I stopped watching after 32 seconds.
I can't take seriously any video with such a horrible defending.
Who are these guys in green shirts?
Defending?
Marking?
Pressure?
Each player from Gremio had several seconds to think about what he will do with a ball every time until the opponent will get near him.
The same is with an enormous amount of space whenever Gremio players have the ball.
That doesn't mean that Arthur or anyone from Gremio is good or bad.
But a level of opponent is something like Copa Del Rey matches against a 3rd division teams when Denis, Rafinha or any midfielder look like a mixture of Messi and Xavi.
SeloBarca
Senior Member
Thats a much better video of what i expect of him, the controll.
Dont care if he scores or not, that wont be his job.
Paulinho, Neymar, Coutinho, Gabriel Jesus, etc all came from the same league
That's the only gauge we have for now
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Yes.
Those 4 and 1004 others who didn't make it since their league is weak.
It doesn't mean that a player is bad, it just means that it is hard to make any conclusions based on these games.
It is the same as drawing conclusions from CDR matches against a 3rd div team or from friendlies against a Polish 2nd div team in July.
Since I am coming from a country with a way weaker league than European top 5 countries, I know what I am talking about.
I have seen 100s of players who look good or excellent in a weaker leagues only to turn into total frauds or flops in bigger leagues or big clubs.
2 years ago, I had really high hopes that this player is a real deal and a future winger/attacker and a key player in some of top European clubs:
As you can see in this video, in a weaker league, he was dominating easily.
When he came to Juve, he turned into a player who played as much as Denis Suarez at Barca.
So, from a player who was totally dominating in a weaker league=>turned into a player who plays only here and there as a sub for 10-20 minutes.
And now he is loaned to a German league. (Ok, he was injured this season, but still, the point stands).
Out of 10 guys from weaker leagues, there will be 1-2 guys who will be BOTH good in a weak league and then they will be equally as good in a big league also.
But there will be other 8-9 guys who will be good only in a weaker league where the defenders are weaker and where you have tons of free space and time to do whatever you want when you have the ball.
In a big league, they won't get any space and they will be tackled and surrounded by 2-3 players all the time and majority of guys are never able to reach the top level of top divisions in top5 countries.
Is it a must that you reply with a long essay?
I bet you got an A in Literature when you were a student. Which must be like 20 years ago
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MessiCam
Guest
What [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] fails to recognise is that talented young players from big European leagues fail miserably too. He has this thing where he tries to work out averages based on this and that instead of trying to judge them individually.
You just can't measure individual talent through averages. It's a paradox.
You just can't measure individual talent through averages. It's a paradox.
Deaming Pjaca as failure is absurd. He was injured for how long? At least 1/2 time he spent in Juve, who from what i hear, doesn t wan t to sell him. He came there as a 19 year old, if i remember correctly.
From what i ve seen from him, he is still in the game to be a top player. If the plays regulary and if he keeps his health.
From what i ve seen from him, he is still in the game to be a top player. If the plays regulary and if he keeps his health.
EdmondDantes
New member
Since I've heard Tim Vickery talk about this a few times I'll chime in.
This is a state championship match. Brazil is a massive country with over 20 odd states, each state has its own little 'cup' competition played early in the year. Over 90% of these state championship clubs aren't even in any national league. I've never heard of 'Avenida' but I'm willing to guess they aren't even in Brazil's national 4th division or anything. From what I've heard, most of these small, local clubs only work for the first quarter or two of every year because after these state championships they have nothing to play for. As for the bigger, traditional clubs, these state competitions mostly serve as an extended pre-season to when their actual league (Serie A) starts in April - or something like that.
Hence the small stadium, average turf and sitting back to stay compact and defend thus allowing Gremio and their far superior players time on the ball.
Having said that, Conte took Chelsea to the Etihad recently and did exactly that against Pep's Man City. No pressing and allowed them ages on the ball and it almost worked.
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