2012 CdR Final: Athletic Club - FC Barcelona 0-3

[mixer]

Official: Pinto (ankle) and Alexis (thigh) have been given the medical green light and are available for the cup final tomorrow

Bielsa (coach Athletic): "Pinto playing an advantage? A team like Barcelona don't have only one top goalkeeper. Don't see any differences."
Marcelo Bielsa (coach Athletic): "Messi has solutions for almost all problems. We will try for him to not find them tomorrow."

Pep's press conference;
Guardiola: "Will be away from the game for a while, need some months to recharge. If after that a club can seduce me, I'll coach again."
Guardiola: "Becoming a pundit now? I am not considering that. I couldn't compete with you, guys... (smiles)"
Guardiola: "The worst thing about my time at Barcelona have been the diseases and injuries. All the rest have been good things."
Guardiola: "Congrats to Chelsea, that generation of players, with Cech, Drogba, etc deserved to win a Champions League."
Guardiola: "They changed the pitch 2 or 3 days, it can't be in perfect conditions. Guess it'll be a handicap for both teams."
Guardiola: "After the Chelsea game, I told Tito he would be offered to become head coach. I encouraged him and said I would be by his side."
Guardiola: "In November, Zubizarreta said he thought about Tito if I would leave. I said I thought it was a great idea."

 

[woobie]

I still don't think she's mainstream and do not think that the party ties to Madrid can be made for much of anything relating to the cup final but refusal of use of the Bernabeu. But as I said, we can agree to disagree on this one.

What's far more worrying to me is the very definitely radical Falange group that's marching tomorrow because that's really got the possibility of going bad.

 

[DucdeOrléans]

It's more complex than that. PP today have little if any association with Franco at all. You have the Falange Party for that segment of the society.

FCBarca:

I think it is fair to say that you are overestimating the influence of RM. If I am not wrong then Aguirre is not even a Madridista - which could also explain her surprising statement during RM's title celebrations in Madrid where she said that the best RM match last season was the 3-1 defeat against no other than FCB.

The most tragicomical part of this discussion is the fact that the Falange protest collides with the game. It's not only blatantly obvious that it will cause problems but it's extremely stupid as well. Don't know what the hell the Madrid municipality was thinking.

EDIT: WTF happened with the page?

 

[Ryan_Cule]

It's more complex than that. PP today have little if any association with Franco at all. You have the Falange Party for that segment of the society.

FCBarca:

I think it is fair to say that you are overestimating the influence of RM. If I am not wrong then Aguirre is not even a Madridista - which could also explain her surprising statement during RM's title celebrations in Madrid where she said that the best RM match last season was the 3-1 defeat against no other than FCB.

The most tragicomical part of this discussion is the fact that the Falange protest collides with the game. It's not only blatantly obvious that it will cause problems but it's extremely stupid as well. Don't know what the hell the Madrid municipality was thinking.

EDIT: WTF happened with the page?

She is the honorary member of RM .

 

[woobie]

Dupe posts deleted, sorry about that hiccup.

(Ryan, who CARES if she's an honorary Madrid member? Lots of people are just like lots of people are honorary Barca socios.)

 

[Sergio]

Ryan is obviously easily shocked. The president of the Madrid community has an affiliation with Real Madrid, mind blowing!

 

[Ryan_Cule]

Dupe posts deleted, sorry about that hiccup.

(Ryan, who CARES if she's an honorary Madrid member? Lots of people are just like lots of people are honorary Barca socios.)

It was a response to Ducde where he said " If I am not wrong then Aguirre is not even a Madridista" .

 

[Maria]

Aguirre is a madridista, but her statements have nothing to do with RM..but they have everything to do with the fact that the madrilenos have just found out that she made some debts that she was trying to hide. So after all, like any "good" politician, Esperanza is just trying to divert the atention from Spain's real problems(and knowing how much the catalans and basques are hated in the spanish capital, I think she had some succes).

The fact that they forbidden any flags or banners with elephants* is hilarious though..

*http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/15/spain-king-juan-carlos-hunting

I think it is fair to say that you are overestimating the influence of RM. If I am not wrong then Aguirre is not even a Madridista - which could also explain her surprising statement during RM's title celebrations in Madrid where she said that the best RM match last season was the 3-1 defeat against no other than FCB.

I believe that Ana Botella, the mayor of Madrid made that statement.

 

[La LL]

I'm sure locals in the forum know better too but Aguirre is in the PP, right?...It's a conservative party that not only dominates Spanish politics but is founded by Franco loyalists and former cabinet members...Not sure what constitutes mainstream but the PP are the majority

Exactly . Not only that, majority of the party members openly supports and talks about the Franco regime so loyally even now . I don't know how woobie missed it..

So much interest in the politics of a country that is not your own. What is it with this rabid anti-Spanish sentiment? You're not even Catalans or Basques ergo you don't really have the right to lash out at Spanish politicians because what you know about the subject is limited. I assure you, if you set foot here and start arguing all this crap then someone is going to shut you up and do it good.

I have limited knowledge of the whole Catalunya/Basque Country vs. Spain myself and from what I've gathered it's a difficult topic. It's not difficult to understand why (something most you seem to be able to grasp) but it's difficult to understand just how the relationship is between the two groups and no, it's not frothing hate, the kind that I see a lot of here. It's a matter of communication or failed communication more than anything else. I've met many people here in Barcelona that support the PP. The PP, like the Republicans in the US, is one huge party with different fringe groups, some conservative and some you could call Falangistas. The ultra-nationalists are a fringe group and barely have any power at all. Opponents of the PP usually cry out nazi, facist and what not and members of the PP call the opposition anarchists, communists and so on. It's the same in every god damn country. In my own country the centre-right party is being accused of all sorts of things like the PP, most of which is just part of a scare campaign.

And like Duke pointed out, there are so, so many people here in Barcelona who are part-Spanish, part-Catalan. In all actuality, there are very few true Catalans here. The absolute, vast majority have some measure of Spanish blood in theirs veins, be it a parent, grandparent or the husband of a sister (family then). People on this forum don't seem to grasp that Barcelona holds 80% of the population of Catalunya. Of the city's population, some 20% can be considered pure Spanish, then you have a vast amount of immigrants but the rest can't be put into one little neat box. It's mostly young people who hold a Catalanist point of view but even among them I've stumbled into an extraordinary amount of young people who are fairly pro-Spanish. If you want Catalan then you can visit the country side and that's usually where you'll find most of the separatists. The Catalan separatists are, like the Falange, only a tiny but very vocal fringe.

Most Catalans I know say the same: We want to be Catalan but also Spanish. The question is how much we want to be one over the other.

 

[DucdeOrléans]

So much interest in the politics of a country that is not your own. What is it with this rabid anti-Spanish sentiment? You're not even Catalans or Basques ergo you don't really have the right to lash out Spanish politicians because what you know about the subject is limited. I assure you, if you set foot here and start arguing all this crap then someone is going to shut you up and do it good.

I have limited knowledge of the whole Catalunya/Basque Country vs. Spain myself and from what I've gathered it's a difficult topic. It's not difficult to understand why (something most you seem to be able to grasp) but it's difficult to understand just how the relationship is between the two groups and no, it's not frothing hate, the kind that I see a lot of here. It's a matter of communication or failed communication more than anything else. I've met many people here in Barcelona that support the PP. The PP, like the Republicans in the US, is one huge party with different fringe groups, some conservative and some you could call Falangistas. The ultra-nationalists are a fringe group and barely have any power at all. Opponents of the PP usually cry out nazi, facist and what not and members of the PP call the opposition anarchists, communists and so on. It's the same in every god damn country. In my own country the centre-right party is being accused of all sorts of things like the PP, most of which is just part of a scare campaign.

And like Duke pointed out, there are so, so many people here in Barcelona who are part-Spanish, part-Catalan. In all actuality, there are very few true Catalans here. The absolute, vast majority have some measure of Spanish blood in theirs veins, be it a parent, grandparent or the husband of a sister. People here don't seem to grasp that Barcelona holds 80% of the population of Catalunya. Of the city's population, some 20% can be considered pure Spanish, then you have a vast amount of immigrants but the rest can't be put into one little neat box. It's mostly young people who hold a Catalanist point of view but even among them I've stumbled into an extraordinary amount of young people who are fairly pro-Spanish. The Catalan separatists are, like the Falange, only a tiny but very vocal fringe.

Most Catalans I know say the same: We want to be Catalan but also Spanish. The question is how much we want to be one over the other.

Spot on LoveLaudrup.

Ryan:

Then how do you explain those comments of her I posted earlier in this thread? And as Wobbie said; just because you are an honorary member it does not necessarily mean that she is a madridista. The previous Pope was an honorary member of our club but I am not so sure that anyone would call him a barcelonista, would they?

Apart from that I think (it's only a guess - I am not sure) that it's a normal procedure that the major of Madrid is offered that "honour" from RM. I know it's the case (or at least have been) previously in Barcelona.

 

[woobie]

Thanks for that, LL. Nicely stated.

What's the Catalan press saying about the Falange march tomorrow?

 

[La Furia]

So much interest in the politics of a country that is not your own. What is it with this rabid anti-Spanish sentiment? You're not even Catalans or Basques ergo you don't really have the right to lash out at Spanish politicians because what you know about the subject is limited. I assure you, if you set foot here and start arguing all this crap then someone is going to shut you up and do it good.

I have limited knowledge of the whole Catalunya/Basque Country vs. Spain myself and from what I've gathered it's a difficult topic. It's not difficult to understand why (something most you seem to be able to grasp) but it's difficult to understand just how the relationship is between the two groups and no, it's not frothing hate, the kind that I see a lot of here. It's a matter of communication or failed communication more than anything else. I've met many people here in Barcelona that support the PP. The PP, like the Republicans in the US, is one huge party with different fringe groups, some conservative and some you could call Falangistas. The ultra-nationalists are a fringe group and barely have any power at all. Opponents of the PP usually cry out nazi, facist and what not and members of the PP call the opposition anarchists, communists and so on. It's the same in every god damn country. In my own country the centre-right party is being accused of all sorts of things like the PP, most of which is just part of a scare campaign.

And like Duke pointed out, there are so, so many people here in Barcelona who are part-Spanish, part-Catalan. In all actuality, there are very few true Catalans here. The absolute, vast majority have some measure of Spanish blood in theirs veins, be it a parent, grandparent or the husband of a sister (family then). People on this forum don't seem to grasp that Barcelona holds 80% of the population of Catalunya. Of the city's population, some 20% can be considered pure Spanish, then you have a vast amount of immigrants but the rest can't be put into one little neat box. It's mostly young people who hold a Catalanist point of view but even among them I've stumbled into an extraordinary amount of young people who are fairly pro-Spanish. If you want Catalan then you can visit the country side and that's usually where you'll find most of the separatists. The Catalan separatists are, like the Falange, only a tiny but very vocal fringe.

Most Catalans I know say the same: We want to be Catalan but also Spanish. The question is how much we want to be one over the other.

Very well said.

The Partido Popular, like most mainstream big tent parties, is a wide mix of liberals, falangists, Christian democrats and more extreme catholic traditionalists, and so on. The party has its origins in Francoist politics and its founders were Franco supporters trying to modernize their movement, but the hardline nationalists and Catholics are at this point a minority, an influential minority but subserviant to the parties more moderate conservatives and business-friendly free market types.

Just like the Socialists have their origins in more radical politics, and still have coalitions of socialists with ties to Communist and Anarchist movements, even though the PS itself is dominated by moderate technocrats, social democrats and social liberals.

Catalan nationalists are the same thing, they include every political sect you can think of, some overtly hate Spain some are pro-Spain but more pro-Catalonia

 

[FCBarca]

So much interest in the politics of a country that is not your own. What is it with this rabid anti-Spanish sentiment?

Autonomous regions of Spain have real issues within Spain, that's not an opinion, it's fact

You're not even Catalans or Basques ergo you don't really have the right to lash out at Spanish politicians because what you know about the subject is limited.

Congratulations, I'm not Basque or Catalan...nor am I Palestinian, nor was I a Bosnian, Chechen, etc. yet that doesn't translate to not having a right to weigh in on a topic...That kind of ludicrous logic is precisely at the root of problems of like these

I assure you, if you set foot here and start arguing all this crap then someone is going to shut you up and do it good.

Well, I can see that your train of thought quickly degenerates into an enlightened discussion of violence & ignorance but that's not really adding to the discussion...Don't talk about it or you'll get smacked?...Are you a teenager?

I have limited knowledge of the whole Catalunya/Basque Country vs. Spain myself

Yet you're going to weigh in after blasting others for not knowing?

I've met many people here in Barcelona that support the PP.

This constitutes what exactly?...Wasn't the premise that her comments reflected mainstream politics?...BTW, how would the same people in Barcelona take to having an Ultras protest like the Falange rescheduled for the night of their club's Final AND to have Aguirre incite with her rhetoric?...I suspect fewer would support the PP...The avalanche of criticism that ensued Aguirre's remarks would suggest she indeed was foolishly inciting trouble

And like Duke pointed out, there are so, so many people here in Barcelona who are part-Spanish, part-Catalan. In all actuality, there are very few true Catalans here. The absolute, vast majority have some measure of Spanish blood in theirs veins, be it a parent, grandparent or the husband of a sister (family then). People on this forum don't seem to grasp that Barcelona holds 80% of the population of Catalunya. Of the city's population, some 20% can be considered pure Spanish, then you have a vast amount of immigrants but the rest can't be put into one little neat box. It's mostly young people who hold a Catalanist point of view but even among them I've stumbled into an extraordinary amount of young people who are fairly pro-Spanish. If you want Catalan then you can visit the country side and that's usually where you'll find most of the separatists. The Catalan separatists are, like the Falange, only a tiny but very vocal fringe.

So what's your point?...That Catalans are already fading out of existence through ethnic mixing so less people should care or feel offended?...That's not a position of strength to argue from, it's a retreat into spin

Most Catalans I know say the same: We want to be Catalan but also Spanish. The question is how much we want to be one over the other.

Congratulations, most Catalans I know take considerable pride in who they are and resent Madrid and it's politics...And while currently still within the borders of Spain, they don't consider themselves Spanish

 

[La LL]

Thanks for that, LL. Nicely stated.

What's the Catalan press saying about the Falange march tomorrow?

No idea. Most of what I know is told to me by my friends and by my teachers. All I know is that my teacher told me today that she'd advice us all to watch the game tomorrow due to the whole anthem-jeering thing. She never watches football so if she turns on the TV for this particular game (like she claimed she would) then I can only assume that something might go down.

 

[La Furia]

Autonomous regions of Spain have real issues within Spain, that's not an opinion, it's fact

Well, around the Mediterranean in the Catalan countries, if anything there is as much issue about Catalan chauvinism as their is Castillian. It's benefited the PP greatly in Valencia where there is sentiment that Catalonia considers them their territory and wants to erase their own distinct identity.

And of course a lot of Spain the issue has more to do with distrusting an inept government in Madrid or being part of a monarchy than it does with any real desire for separatism.

In my experience most Catalans are hardly separatists, most consider themselves Catalan first and might dislike the government in Madrid but consider themselves Spanish to some degree.