20 - Sergi Roberto

[Danic]

I think u can count semedos lost 1v1s on one hand and he saved piques ass a dozen times thanls to his speed.
But ok, when people start to say semedo is meh in defense im out cause this has nothing to do with reality anymore...

 

[ASordidGod]

Well, you are one of "but what if?" guys.
You are willing to test/ruin something which is average for something which may turn as better or as a total disaster.

A safe approach is: play the one who is ok (Roberto), since we won a double even with him.
Semedo: play him from time. If he will be good, play him more. If he won't, don't play him too much.

A more radical approach is: play Semedo all the time, and be willing to risk a season in order to see how will he develop.
It could end well: we will find a new Alves.
It could end horrible: we will win less points since we will struggle in attack.



True.
But again, nothing is black and white.
Each player needs time to learn our system.

But some guys are decent from the day 1, some are totally lost.

Examples:
Arthur understands our movement after 3-4 matches.
Ok, people will say: he played in a similar system in Brasil...

Ok, what about Coutinho then?
He was decent from the first match.
And while not perfect, he was let's say 50% good fit and he is improving over time.

With Semedo, he seems like a 10% good fit currently.

So, you see, some players are average in the beginning, and over time they improve to very good once they learn our system.
Others are very poor and their improvement path is way longer since they need to go from horrible to average and then to good.
While Coutinho/Arthur only need to go from average to very good.

For example, you can see right away how Arthur fits better with a team than Vidal.
And Vidal will need way more time to learn our movement.
Ok, he is a different type of a player blah blah, but a point stands.
With some players, you can see right away that they will probably click and fit, and that they won't need THAT much to adapt.
With other players, you see that they will need light years to understand our movements.

Imo, Semedo is one of the guys.
And for me, Dembele also has hints of that problem.

For example, Dembele is more skillfull, but still looks quite lost on a field too often, even after 14 Months here.
Malcom is less skillfull, but whenever he plays, he seems less lost than Dembele, so, he understands our movement better.

On the other hand, Dembele can create more individual magic out of nowhere, which is unrelated to his understanding of our movements.

So, both Malcom&Dembele and Arthur&Vidal will improve over time when they will learn our system.
But some guys are ok from the day 1 and will probably need less time to learn and adapt, while some seem way more lost from the day 1.

And then you have a question: when a guy is totally lost and since he will need way more time to learn and adapt, HOW much time are you willing to give him (also, a team will suffer in that time)?
Further, if a player is a new Messi, then it is more reasonable to give him more time to test him, since a possible reward is very high (Messi, Dembele).
While, if a player doesn't have such a high ceiling (Semedo) and he is lost as hell, and will need a lot of time, then maths is different, risks are higher, a potential reward is lower, so there is less reasons to risk.

More or less, that is exactly what EV is doing.
Semedo is getting some chances.
He isn't improving.
He is lost on a field.
A potentaial reward is questionable.

And so, this is why Roberto plays and Semedo gets soem matches to show whether there is hope for him.
So, EV hasn't closed a door completely for Semedo.
But EV surely won't go "all in" with Semedo and play only him, since a risk of a potential good outcome is way too high.

A slight exaggeration to say that Semedo first team risks ruining the entire season, no? He's better than Roberto defensively in my opinion, not perfect but certainly superior. So I would say it's almost guaranteed that if he plays we'll concede less than if Roberto had. In cl in particular I believe Semedo will be crucial if we've any real chance. As regards him costing us going forward, sure that's possible especially during the early stages, but sufficient to destroy our season? I don't see it. Particularly as, as someone else already pointed out, playing 433 with Messi nominally RW any rb is going to struggle to link up consistently in an attacking sense; but by the same token their defensive abilities become even more paramount; specifically they'll need the athleticism to cover the entire flank, at times single handedly. Another reason for Semedo to play.

Like you say, with Roberto we know what we're getting and what we're getting, as an overall package, is mediocrity. The perserverence with which is the main reason for our recent underperformance in cl. This is Barcelona for christ's sake, we shouldn't ever settle, shouldn't ever simply make do. Imo, anyway.

 

[Cule4life]

Ah yes the mythical attacking prowess of Roberto-- Some say it's seen on the day when unicorns come out of their exile to breakdance for charity

 

[Joan]

Roberto's skills in attack and possession are far greater than Semedo's.

 

[BBZ8800]

Ah yes the mythical attacking prowess of Roberto-- Some say it's seen on the day when unicorns come out of their exile to breakdance for charity

Unicorns, whoscored:

Last season, La liga:
Minutes:
2231 Roberto
1495 Semedo

Total assists:
7 Roberto
0 Mighty Semedo

Key passes per game:
0,8 Roberto
0,5 Semedo

Dribbles per game:
1,8 Roberto
1,2 Semedo

Now, on top of that, you can add an eye test stat: Semedo looks lost when he plays.

Also, majority of people will agree that Semedo is better in defense than Roberto (me too).
But according to only tackles and interceptions, Roberto is better.
So, my point: you can't judge defending ONLY based on tackles and interceptions.
I have said before that Rakitic is way better in defending than his stats suggest.
And that for example, Thiago is a way worse defender than Rakitic than stats suggest.

So, here is for example, how Roberto is actually a better defender than Semedo, according to stats:
Tackles per match:
2,1 Roberto
1,4 Semedo

Interceptions per match:
1,3 Roberto
0,9 Semedo

Clearances per match:
0,9 Semedo
0,8 Roberto

Blocks per match:
0,3 Roberto
0,1 Semedo

Dribbled past per match (a negative stat):
0,8 Roberto
0,5 Semedo

So, Roberto is better at tackles, interceptions and blocks.
Semedo is less dribbled per match.
They are equal in clearances.

So, according to stats: Roberto is way better in attack and slightly better in defense.

 

[Nothanks]

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] but but but he can catch up to the winger he lost his marking to!

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

So none of them are good enough then. We need new #1 right back.

 

[xXKonan]

So none of them are good enough then. We need new #1 right back.

Nah you have people arguing that there's no RB out there that can replace Roberto and you should lower expectations.

I mean I like the guy but man some people get fucking venomous if you suggest that we should look for another RB if Semedo isn't the guy to replace Bob.

 

[clemente]

Unicorns, whoscored:

Last season, La liga:
Minutes:
2231 Roberto
1495 Semedo

Total assists:
7 Roberto
0 Mighty Semedo

Key passes per game:
0,8 Roberto
0,5 Semedo

Dribbles per game:
1,8 Roberto
1,2 Semedo

Now, on top of that, you can add an eye test stat: Semedo looks lost when he plays.

Also, majority of people will agree that Semedo is better in defense than Roberto (me too).
But according to only tackles and interceptions, Roberto is better.
So, my point: you can't judge defending ONLY based on tackles and interceptions.
I have said before that Rakitic is way better in defending than his stats suggest.
And that for example, Thiago is a way worse defender than Rakitic than stats suggest.

So, here is for example, how Roberto is actually a better defender than Semedo, according to stats:
Tackles per match:
2,1 Roberto
1,4 Semedo

Interceptions per match:
1,3 Roberto
0,9 Semedo

Clearances per match:
0,9 Semedo
0,8 Roberto

Blocks per match:
0,3 Roberto
0,1 Semedo

Dribbled past per match (a negative stat):
0,8 Roberto
0,5 Semedo

So, Roberto is better at tackles, interceptions and blocks.
Semedo is less dribbled per match.
They are equal in clearances.

So, according to stats: Roberto is way better in attack and slightly better in defense.

Stats are useless, the team opposition is different etc. Also even looking at this, it doesn't show the statistics of Roberto being lost in our box, not marking anyone and losing every aerial battle. Oh wait there is an aerial battle stat but you didn't put it here.

 

[BBZ8800]

Stats are useless, the team opposition is different etc. Also even looking at this, it doesn't show the statistics of Roberto being lost in our box, not marking anyone and losing every aerial battle. Oh wait there is an aerial battle stat but you didn't put it here.

Stats are not useless, but they don't tell the whole story.
Unless if Semedo played only against Real, Atletico and similar all the time, then stats could be wrong.

But since they were rotated against random La Liga teams, Roberto vs Semedo stats are probably evened out in the end.
In fact, Roberto played on majority of away (harder matches than home matches) and he still has better attacking stats (even though it is harder to attack on away matches than on a Camp Nou):
Regarding Roberto's defensive stats, there is a tiny chance that he had better defensive stats because he had to defend more since he played on away matches where our defenders have more work to do.

So, based on stats, we could say:
Roberto is either better in defense, or his stats are better since he played on away matches.
On the other hand, regarding attack, Semedo played in easier matches (Camp Nou) and still has 0 assists, and weaker key passes and dribbles stats.

So, no matter how you twist or read stats, Semedo is horrible for now in attacking area.
And for Barca's fullback, attacking is probably 60% or 70% of his match duties.

Oh wait there is an aerial battle stat but you didn't put it here.

Defensive stats on Whoscored:
Tackles
Interceptions
Fouls (useless stat)
Offsides won per game (useless)
Clearances
Dribbled past per game
Blocks

I have put in my post: tackles, interceptions, clearances, dribbled past per game, blocks.

 

[CatalinR10]

Unicorns, whoscored:

Last season, La liga:
Minutes:
2231 Roberto
1495 Semedo

Total assists:
7 Roberto
0 Mighty Semedo

Key passes per game:
0,8 Roberto
0,5 Semedo

Dribbles per game:
1,8 Roberto
1,2 Semedo

Now, on top of that, you can add an eye test stat: Semedo looks lost when he plays.

Also, majority of people will agree that Semedo is better in defense than Roberto (me too).
But according to only tackles and interceptions, Roberto is better.
So, my point: you can't judge defending ONLY based on tackles and interceptions.
I have said before that Rakitic is way better in defending than his stats suggest.
And that for example, Thiago is a way worse defender than Rakitic than stats suggest.

So, here is for example, how Roberto is actually a better defender than Semedo, according to stats:
Tackles per match:
2,1 Roberto
1,4 Semedo

Interceptions per match:
1,3 Roberto
0,9 Semedo

Clearances per match:
0,9 Semedo
0,8 Roberto

Blocks per match:
0,3 Roberto
0,1 Semedo

Dribbled past per match (a negative stat):
0,8 Roberto
0,5 Semedo

So, Roberto is better at tackles, interceptions and blocks.
Semedo is less dribbled per match.
They are equal in clearances.

So, according to stats: Roberto is way better in attack and slightly better in defense.

roberto has ,,better " deffensive stats as tackles , interceptions , clearances , blocks and such because teams attack 10x more on the right side when he is playing , compared when we play with semedo , because they know he is the weakest link.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Nah you have people arguing that there's no RB out there that can replace Roberto and you should lower expectations.

I mean I like the guy but man some people get fucking venomous if you suggest that we should look for another RB if Semedo isn't the guy to replace Bob.

Since I am the "some people" you are talking about, I would have to clear things
I still stand firm to my opinion, that isn't because Roberto is fucking awesome, I am aware there is a room for upgrade but...

RB is a historically -in past 2 decades-bad position for Barca. Zambrotta was best RB in the world and he struggled with us and was just solid, before signing Alves RB was a position that bothered people for very long time and only when Puyol played there we were considered to have a real good RB. We had best team in the world in 2006 and our starting RB was Oleguer.

Alves changed things, he was a record deal because we were just too tired from having bad players at that position and we decided to break the bank for him before he joins PL. He was the exception not the norm.
20 years of watching Barca, I don't remember a position that was as bad as RB for us.


8 years ago, Lahm, Maicon and Alves were the best RBs in the world. Right now we have the likes of Walker and Carvajal, may be Kimmich (still think he is a bit overrated btw) ? I won't take any of those over the best RBs in 2010. I won't take any of them over prime Zambrotta or Cafu.
The RB position is probably the worst in football in term of world class talent, atm the likes of Semedo and Odriozola costs around 40M and they are probably back up RBs, Danillo was sold twice for 30M.
You have to add to that our playing style which is vert difficult and demanding in attack and play making ability, the pool of talent isn't that good in the market


Is there is a hidden gem out there that is going to be the next Alves/Cafu? I am all for buying him for sure. Is one of Wague or Morey going to be world beater? I think both of us would love so.
Would Semedo turn better than I expect and shut me up? trust me I would love so, after all I am a Barca fan.

But I don't want the club to start looking for paying 40M every couple of years on a Semdo/Danilo level of talent. We are having an aging squad, Pique/Busquets/Suarez/Raki need to be replaced soon. Our budget will be tight when we try to replace those guys.
This is the likely scenario for me, we could go all in the market to get a new RB and still end up with same level we have or slightly better while wasting ton of resources for it, all while we are in a transition period that we need to replace aging players

 

[xXKonan]

I get your points.

I'm a patient guy, I'm willing to give players some time before I decide he isn't good enough, I did with Roberto,Gomes,Denis etc. With Roberto I use to give him a lot of shit under Lucho in the 2014/15 season. He looked like a CM who was to afraid to do anything risky until Lucho decided to use him as a DM and things started to change a bit for me.

At RB when he played vs Bilbao I was quite impressed and even said that "if he keeps up it up he can be our own Carvajal" as in our own youth RB that is our first choice. Something Montoya failed to do. Right now I'm sitting here leaning towards there "Well he's improved a lot but I just don't think it's viable for him to be our long term RB"

If Semedo isn't the guy to do this I don't really think we should completely give up on finding a different RB out there. I want to see what Wague and Morey have tbh.

 

[KingMessi]

We should always look to improve our squad. It's nothing personal, it's what you have to do to be at the top of the game.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Can you imagine Roberto trying to win header vs British teams or Rinaldo? He would get killed. First goal is just weak. Interesting fact though, both crosses actually came from Albas side.

Roberto is no defenseman. He just lacks the physicality for it.

I am fine playing Roberto as a RB when we play home and we have opponent who will park the bus. Roberto is better in games like that. I would always have Semedo over Roberto in big games because his defensive ability is so much better. Look last year's Camp Nou Clasico as an example. Roberto got red card and was disaster the whole 45 min and then Semedo came in and put Real Madrid in his pocket.

If we are losing, put Roberto in.. He can help us offensively. Put Semedo in If you want more focus on defense. I think both are useful in their roles!