serghei
Senior Member
Messi is almost the same age as Aguero. Born a year apart.
10 - Lionel Messi - V6
- Thread starter El Flaco
- Start date
Messi is almost the same age as Aguero. Born a year apart.
El Gato
Villarato!
What's that got to do with tactical integrity of the midfield? Current 32-year old Leo has to play in the middle for the team to keep some form of a shape and play to his strengths. Unless you have a GOAT RB who will pretty much be the RW, there's no point in him playing as a full-on forward any more. And Guardiola isn't a dumbass to force a guy with his mind to be limited to the RW when there are plenty of players who could now beat Messi in a foot race.
The defensive intergrity of the 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 with Messi as #10/SS is a whole different story.
serghei
Senior Member
Messi would never play as a midfielder for a Guardiola team imo. Ever. His midfields were always fluid, constantly moving to seek and exploit spaces. No way he'd have low-workrate Messi up there in his midfield. He'd play as a false 9 again, instead of Aguero most likely (considering they're the same age). Or next to Aguero, instead of Sane in the front three.
Pep would win CL with this City midfield and Messi up front for sure, or at the very least would get very very close. Even with the constant fuck-ups in defense, form Laporte, Walker & Co.
El Gato
Villarato!
Instead of Aguero and deeper in, maybe. That's still in the middle. Pep doesn't have slow, low-workrate wingers like Leo if he can stomach it, hence ageing Henry got shipped out at first opportunity where viable replacement became available on the market. And that is still leaving Leo open to dropping back to get the ball, clashing with the likes of Coutinho/De Bruyne (whoever would play with or behind him) fulfilling his habits of playing hero-ball. Pep wouldn't stop it. Messi would be just as effective as a ball carrier as any other one would in that position.
serghei
Senior Member
No, Leo won't have to drop back that often with a working midfield. Maybe from time to time, but not excessively like under Valverde. Drop back for what? The midfield is working and the service is coming constantly. Why would he drop back if he has a fluid working midfield which can give him the ball constantly in more advances positions? Makes no sense.
Messi drops back when he doesn't get the ball, or when the tactics have him doing that (something like playing with 3DMs lol). And this is usually when the possession play is bad - most of the time under Valverde. Why would he drop back with a midfield that has no issues circulating the ball and creating chances?
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serghei
Senior Member
Messi dropping back excessively is a by-product of an unproductive midfield in build-up. When you play Busi - Vidal - Rakitic behind him, he has to drop back or else he won't get a sniff of the ball for extended periods.
But then again, as soon as he gets away from the opposition's 16m box, like 30-40m. away from his normal area of action, his powers become limited. And he has nobody up front than old sluggish Suarez, who could be on a good day, or on a bad day, usually between 2 or more defenders. Which, by the way, in CL is more bad days than good ones.
But then again, as soon as he gets away from the opposition's 16m box, like 30-40m. away from his normal area of action, his powers become limited. And he has nobody up front than old sluggish Suarez, who could be on a good day, or on a bad day, usually between 2 or more defenders. Which, by the way, in CL is more bad days than good ones.
El Gato
Villarato!
Habit. It's like to you this is something he'd just stop doing, lol. He's old, he'd do it anyway, because it's what he did for nearly 7 years now.
You also work in terms of the players City have. Why? Think what would happen if Guardiola came back here. Who would he get rid of? Suarez is your Aguero, so he'd stay unless he wants to go. Wingers would stay. Coutinho would probably go. Busquets would be kept as a Fernandinho. Both fullbacks who are rather average as defenders would likely remain. De Jong comes in for Rakitić. Pique would probably stay for the lack of viable CB replacements and would rotate with Lenglet.
And with this kind of squad, there are countless defensive issues, many amplified by the Messi having to play as false #9 forcing Dembele & your LW narrower and putting Semedo and Alba under pressure. No doubt it's a better system than the one you currently have, but Messi would continue to do what he did for years. It doesn't just stop on Guardiola's "says so".
serghei
Senior Member
Habit? Pep is a master at breaking the bad habits and implementing his own style. At every team he went he implemented his style.
If Pep would came at Barcelona?
Rakitic out, Arthur and De Jong starters from day 1. Tailor made for his football. Busi could up his game a bit considering we'll be playing the style he is used to the most, even if he wouldn't be able to match his 2011 form obviously.
Suarez could stay, but he is nowhere near guaranteed to start like he is now. Only Messi would be guaranteed to start probably.
Pique is not a problem. Lenglet, De Ligt if he comes. Umtiti sold probably, Todibo promoted. Dembele starter and would improve probably at a much faster rate (similar with Sterling who was made fun of on redcafe in the year before Pep came, and is now top 5 players in the whole league arguably).
Coutinho is an unknown for me. Could still be sold, or could actually be tried more in midfield as an AM, which is something we've asked a lot here, but to no effect (basically played 90% as a winger no matter his performances there, which sucked usually).
Alba would be great under Pep. No doubt. Semedo would improve as well, even you said he is a good player.
Basically if Pep came back he'd improve our 3 most problematic things. Position and role of Messi, would get rid of the veterans running things since he will be the boss from day one, and would improve the stagnating talented players we have.
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serghei
Senior Member
Isn't this what you were expecting when you proposed the hypothetical case of him being back at Barcelona? Assumptions? They're supported by Pep's managing style and his work at all teams he managed.
There's no evidence Guardiola will suddenly cave in to players and not implement his style. In 2008 he came at Barcelona and with no expeirence at top level football he cut two of the main players in the team. Imagine him now with all the success he's had in the last decade.
I'm sure Guardiola coming back at Barcelona is the least a Madrid fan would want though.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaOMEs3BpDA
this is why he's the best, find a more beautiful crafted goal than that. just pure beauty and prettyness
this is why he's the best, find a more beautiful crafted goal than that. just pure beauty and prettyness
El Gato
Villarato!
There's no evidence because he hasn't managed a 32 year old GOAT. All hypotheticals so like I say - whatever.
PS
He's not coming back until Messi is gone at the earliest. I wonder why.
serghei
Senior Member
Lol. Okay. Don't ruin a good debate.
YodaMaster
Member
I’ve got to agree with Serghei. Messi is dropping back in the middle of the park, but he is doing it because team needs it, not because he loves doing it. He does it because our 5 year long starter CM (hello Rakitic) is a coward who won’t play a forward pass to save his life. He prefers to hide behind Busquets and Piqué.
From time to time, Messi also dropped deep when we had Xavi-Iniesta vs bus parking teams, but
1) it was much less frequent than now
2) he never went as deep as he’s going now
At City, Messi would play in the last third because guys like KDB and the 2 Silva would feed him greatly in that area. Messi receiving good balls in the last third is the deadliest thing in football. Would he still come to middle of the pitch sometimes ? Probably. But that would be the exception not the rule.
That was my little contribution. But anyway [MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5226]Wolfe[/MENTION] it’s a good football centered debate you two are having. It’s good to see that there are people who can watch and analyze football with their eyes, talk about tactics, instead of spreading stats based bullshit like some here are masters at.
From time to time, Messi also dropped deep when we had Xavi-Iniesta vs bus parking teams, but
1) it was much less frequent than now
2) he never went as deep as he’s going now
At City, Messi would play in the last third because guys like KDB and the 2 Silva would feed him greatly in that area. Messi receiving good balls in the last third is the deadliest thing in football. Would he still come to middle of the pitch sometimes ? Probably. But that would be the exception not the rule.
That was my little contribution. But anyway [MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5226]Wolfe[/MENTION] it’s a good football centered debate you two are having. It’s good to see that there are people who can watch and analyze football with their eyes, talk about tactics, instead of spreading stats based bullshit like some here are masters at.
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