Luka Jović
- Thread starter El Trencaxarxes
- Start date
Jovic was mostly just a substitute last season. How can you treat 10 min sub appearances as the equal to a full game?
Arizona Scott
New member
I was really focusing on assists per goals--that should not be affected by PT. But thinking a bit more perhaps a better measure that could reflect selfishness would be assists to shots--if someone wants to pull that be happy to look at it with an open mind.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Scott, this is why I am looking at tackles, assists and similar per minute.
Check how much a player played in minutes.
Add his total number of goals, assists, tackles and that's it...
Arizona Scott
New member
Took data from transfermarket & whoscored, here is what I got per minute basis Bundesliga action, Werner at Leipizg and Jovic at Frankfurt.
shots per minute, goals PM, assists PM, assists/shots
player spm gpm apm apshot gshot
L.Jovic .042 .010 .0024 .057 .244
Werner .037 .007 .0026 .072 .190
Not much of a difference, I'd say both are a big shot happy. Jovic has a higher conversion rate and shade lower assists rate.
Some other data: They are close in getting fouled. Werner is little higher in key passes and dribbles, and a little worse in mis controls. Werner is higher in defensive stats like tackles and interception, I don't know enough about their teams schemes to say if that is a product of strategy or a product of hustle, work ethic and athletically getting to spaces defensively. Jovic has substantively better aerial stats and less than half as many offsides per match--it could be because he is better in the air and more aware as a player, or it could be differences with how they are asked to play and scheme (what I read is Frankfurt plays high press & sends in a lot of crosses to their two center forwards--I have not seen any of their full matches, highlights only).
Here is other data. Werner's last 3 years of overall performance (composite whoscored rating), 7.15 (this year), 6.9, 7.3. Jovic is 7.21 & 6.6. Werner had the 4th highest clocked speed in the Bundesliga last year, could not find a clocked speed for Jovic.
Ok now my subjective eval. Jovic (highlights) looks fast but not blazingly fast like Werner. While I think Werner open sup a defense more on the wings than Jovic can, Jovic can also work wide. Jovic seems like a more conventional #9, though I think both could operate with another striker (Jovic does on his team). Jovic I think has a bit better balance, impressive balance and strength shoulder to shoulder. Kind of reminds me of Suarez's build and balance, tough cookie and usually the ball stays with him with the defender battling. Seems to get of a shot in tight spaces too, really good feet. Did not have the look of a selfish player--seemed to be shooting and passing when appropriate.
Overall it will be interesting to see if Jovic keeps getting better, or whether next year he slips--for instance as opponents may analyze him better. Werner had a dip his 2nd season at Leipzig. Jovic is surely one to watch, one thing is he is a young 21 while I'd call Werner an old 22--both because he will soon be 23 but also because he has been in the spotlight for a long time for country and clubs. I think next year will tell a lot of about Jovic while Werner is probably more what you see is what you get--I wonder if a team will try a sizable money move now for Jovic or if he stays one more year and then moves if he keeps getting exponentially better. I would think the smart move for him is to wait one year--hard for me to think he could walk into Real, Barca or Bayern now. I'll look to catch a Frankfurt match and see more of him that selected highlights--see how he works off the ball, see the stuff highlights doesn't show.
shots per minute, goals PM, assists PM, assists/shots
player spm gpm apm apshot gshot
L.Jovic .042 .010 .0024 .057 .244
Werner .037 .007 .0026 .072 .190
Not much of a difference, I'd say both are a big shot happy. Jovic has a higher conversion rate and shade lower assists rate.
Some other data: They are close in getting fouled. Werner is little higher in key passes and dribbles, and a little worse in mis controls. Werner is higher in defensive stats like tackles and interception, I don't know enough about their teams schemes to say if that is a product of strategy or a product of hustle, work ethic and athletically getting to spaces defensively. Jovic has substantively better aerial stats and less than half as many offsides per match--it could be because he is better in the air and more aware as a player, or it could be differences with how they are asked to play and scheme (what I read is Frankfurt plays high press & sends in a lot of crosses to their two center forwards--I have not seen any of their full matches, highlights only).
Here is other data. Werner's last 3 years of overall performance (composite whoscored rating), 7.15 (this year), 6.9, 7.3. Jovic is 7.21 & 6.6. Werner had the 4th highest clocked speed in the Bundesliga last year, could not find a clocked speed for Jovic.
Ok now my subjective eval. Jovic (highlights) looks fast but not blazingly fast like Werner. While I think Werner open sup a defense more on the wings than Jovic can, Jovic can also work wide. Jovic seems like a more conventional #9, though I think both could operate with another striker (Jovic does on his team). Jovic I think has a bit better balance, impressive balance and strength shoulder to shoulder. Kind of reminds me of Suarez's build and balance, tough cookie and usually the ball stays with him with the defender battling. Seems to get of a shot in tight spaces too, really good feet. Did not have the look of a selfish player--seemed to be shooting and passing when appropriate.
Overall it will be interesting to see if Jovic keeps getting better, or whether next year he slips--for instance as opponents may analyze him better. Werner had a dip his 2nd season at Leipzig. Jovic is surely one to watch, one thing is he is a young 21 while I'd call Werner an old 22--both because he will soon be 23 but also because he has been in the spotlight for a long time for country and clubs. I think next year will tell a lot of about Jovic while Werner is probably more what you see is what you get--I wonder if a team will try a sizable money move now for Jovic or if he stays one more year and then moves if he keeps getting exponentially better. I would think the smart move for him is to wait one year--hard for me to think he could walk into Real, Barca or Bayern now. I'll look to catch a Frankfurt match and see more of him that selected highlights--see how he works off the ball, see the stuff highlights doesn't show.
Arizona Scott
New member
Well maybe Poch leaves, another zero trophy year, and Kane puts in a transfer request. Or the Mbappe fellow is worth a punt. We already tried with Griezmann and Liverpool and City arn't parting with their strikers.
After that you get to Werner, Rashford, Jovic, Pepe, Richarlison, Gomez, Mina--possibly get good enough to play for Barca at some time but just as likely (or more) not. So yeah might as well see how they develop (or someone else not even being well tracked) where they are at. (Rashford could cost too much in wages and fees also--I don't see that one feasible even with Manure not in the big boy leagues--at that point go for Mbappe or Kane)
After that you get to Werner, Rashford, Jovic, Pepe, Richarlison, Gomez, Mina--possibly get good enough to play for Barca at some time but just as likely (or more) not. So yeah might as well see how they develop (or someone else not even being well tracked) where they are at. (Rashford could cost too much in wages and fees also--I don't see that one feasible even with Manure not in the big boy leagues--at that point go for Mbappe or Kane)
SeloBarca
Senior Member
Cant believe that defending really.
All of those goals were made against division 5 defence, absolutly horrible.
I dont see that much in Jovic, hes to slow for us.
Piatek would have been better.
Arizona Scott
New member
He did score (right place right time and great poachers touch) but i cant say i was impressed with movement or work rate. I was more impressed by a lot of other players on the field. Sancho, Guerriero & hakimi have a lot going for them as young players.
I know he is getting close to 30 and he did miss some sitters, but i was again reminded i like how reus plays football. With good health I think he could have played for barca.
For frankfurt rebic really reinforced his pace and work ethic. Could be a good energy sub for a good team but i dont think for than that. Haller i want to rewatch.
Arizona Scott
New member
Wanted to comment on Sebastian Haller, Frankfurts #9. He would have had the goal iv BvD if Jovak hasn't nicked it in. He looks very skilled with his feet and effective in ball control in tight space and uses both feet well--be it to shoot or set up a teammate. He is tall (1.90) with superior aerial skills, gets in good positions and strength to hold it. Decent athlete for his size but not pacy from what I can see. Both he and Rebic also worked to recover balls that I didn't see Jovic do as much (these 3 forwards overall are a load for opponents). If I was going to say his upside potential as a playmaking forward, the ideal models for what he could be would be Benzema/Kane (not saying he is likely to get near their level). Beat you with decent size & strength coupled with good feet, vision and willingness to link up play (better in this regard than pacy hustling Rebic or gunsliger Jovic). I don't think we are talking about a star striker but could be a good backup striker for a good club seeking a bigger player to help get to crosses to a packed defense and occupy 2 defenders.
tacticvarium
New member
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