Samuel Umtiti

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Porque

Senior Member
ajnotkeith said:
The same principle applies to all cases when calculating the compensation a player should receive namely the amendments of Matuzalem and De Sanctis.

If a contract has been terminated by one of the parties without there being just cause, and if a party terminates the contract where there is just cause, the party who has breached its obligations will be liable for damages pursuant to RSTP article 17. DRC and CAS has awarded compensation in a large number of cases based on the principles from the cases of Matuzalem[2] and De Sanctis[3], which, in short, acknowledged the harmed party’s right to be put in the position it would have been if the contract had been properly fulfilled, the principle of positive interest. In the process of calculating the compensation, a wide range of factors will have to be taken into consideration, leaving the DRC and CAS panels with a wide margin of discretion.
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I get the rule. But I don't get this following part when discussing the application of it.

"Now as JamDav said what if clubs wanted to game the system and offer lower wages to a player bc they may receive compensation from a previous club (Assuming any player would accept this)"

Who is gaming the system in this example?
 
Birdy

Birdy

Senior Member
khaled_a_d said:
Be
B-The club actually waited till we got offers for him which he rejected, means that he is intentionally hurting the club trying to stay against our well while he gets offer where he is going to be paid the same.
In such case Umtiti can't go to play somewhere else for free or for under his market value. Because we have found him ways to get paid his full salary but he turned it down.

Now, there will be sure counter arguments from his lawyers, but I am talking how the club. lead by a lawyer, seeing it if they indeed do it.
In the aforementioned scenario the club actually saves the salary he could have got if he accepted the offers he got.
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I am not a lawyer, but let's play devil's advocate here:
If Umtiti argues that it's in hist interests not only to get paid X salary, but also to play for Barca, honour his contract,
how can the club argue for B since B assumes that only his salary is what is fighted about.

It seems to me there are huge chances of a court verdict against Barca if they unilaterally terminate his contract.
The positive would be of course that the club pays 0 money to him until the case is conclusively settled in court. Until then, we might be healthy financially and able to pay his remaining salary
 
A

ajnotkeith

Senior Member
Porque said:
I get the rule. But I don't get this following part when discussing the application of it.

"Now as JamDav said what if clubs wanted to game the system and offer lower wages to a player bc they may receive compensation from a previous club (Assuming any player would accept this)"

Who is gaming the system in this example?
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(In the last page it was asked if the rule actually existed so I pasted that bit, but I explained that CAS obviously wouldn't make Barca pay the full compensation after)

But if a club offered him a 1 euro a week contract CAS would obviously consider the context and not make Barca pay the full amount as it is clearly below his market value and the fact that presumably many top division teams with big budgets are interested in him would vindicate Barca in that regard
 
P

Porque

Senior Member
ajnotkeith said:
(In the last page it was asked if the rule actually existed so I pasted that bit, but I explained that CAS obviously wouldn't make Barca pay the full compensation after)

But if a club offered him a 1 euro a week contract CAS would obviously consider the context and not make Barca pay the full amount as it is clearly below his market value and the fact that presumably many top division teams with big budgets are interested in him would vindicate Barca in that regard
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Ah ok, I think I got you.

In this example if Barcelona terminated Umtiti and then Umtiti signed a contract with another club for a euro/week, Barcelona would have very solid grounds to get a big compensation from Umtiti and said club.

Infact if Barcelona released Umtiti and he signed a contract with another club in short turn around then Barcelona would likely still have a good case, as it would be judged that Umtiti&Club were refusing to transfer and awaiting his contract termination fee and he was working together with said club for this outcome.
 
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khaled_a_d

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
Birdy said:
I am not a lawyer, but let's play devil's advocate here:
If Umtiti argues that it's in hist interests not only to get paid X salary, but also to play for Barca, honour his contract,
how can the club argue for B since B assumes that only his salary is what is fighted about.

It seems to me there are huge chances of a court verdict against Barca if they unilaterally terminate his contract.
The positive would be of course that the club pays 0 money to him until the case is conclusively settled in court. Until then, we might be healthy financially and able to pay his remaining salary
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This will be Umtiti defense most likely, and surely the paper work will be far more complicated.
But the point B here is to establish what [MENTION=29831]ajnotkeith[/MENTION] later said. The amount of money that will be paid for Umtiti by another club will be deducted from his money that he is going to be paid by FCB.
Let's say Umtiti and Lyon has agreement to get him, and let's say he is paid 10M.
Now, he can go to Lyon and say I will play for you for free, let those sucker in Catalonia pay me full wage?
In such case, we can establish that we got offers for him (if we indeed has official offers) and what he is doing is fraud. This isn't a guy who isn't capable of getting a contract in professional football.
In such case we can sue both him and his new club.
And even if we don't have offer (again as ajnotkeith mentioned) we can claim that he is paid under what a player in Lyon gets paid.

Such things will put Umtiti and his new club under pressure to get a decent deal agreed, and again in such case Barca will 100% save money as long as he doesn't win a case of getting extra compensation (which can be up to half a year of salary)

At the end, the most likely scenario is that Umtiti will get his salary in full, Barca will get some savings and another club will get him on cheap to bridge the gap between both
 
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P

Porque

Senior Member
@Khaled

Barcelona would need to offer Umtiti to every top 5 league European club.

If the club reject, or Umtiti reject, then Barcelona would have a case that Umtiti and the club colluded to have his contract terminated and be paid in full, so that he can be signed cheaper or paid less by the signing club (effectively double pay).[vine][/vine]
 
delancey

delancey

Senior Member
Ah thanks for the explanation. I think a similar situation occurred when Mourinho was fired at Chelsea.

Let?s assume his contract is terminated. Salary to be compensated by Barcelona is Umtiti?s current salary minus his new salary at a new club. If his new salary is artificially low, CAS may use this when determining how much Barcelona owes the player in compensation.

If Barcelona?s termination of Umtiti is determined wrongful by CAS, could the club end up paying out the difference between his old and new salaries PLUS paying out up to 6 months of his current salary too?

If they end up terminating him, they must have assessed the risk of doing so. It would be interesting to compare his case to someone else?s under similar circumstances. The interesting part here is that he has in fact fulfilled his obligations under the contract. So how could CAS not determine wrongful termination?

Another question. Has a player who was wrongfully terminated ever been paid out more than the value of his total contract in Europe (in modern times)?
 
Messigician

Messigician

Senior Member
Bar?a have decided that terminating the contract of Umtiti is not an option as they would have to pay him the remainder of his contracted salary, which accounts to nearly 2 years of wages (expires June 2023). [rac1]

Goatiti owns this small clubs dawgs.

It's stunning how he has and continues to get us to pay for his holiday in Barcelona.

He will outlast everyone!
 
Rassvet

Rassvet

Well-known member
We should sub him on in the final seconds of every match just to humiliate him and give fans the chance to boo him
 
Messigician

Messigician

Senior Member
This is literally how the negotiations are are going I'd bet my nuts on it.


" Hey Samuel there's a couple of good loan offers for you could you maybe consider them...

"Yeah sure, oh sorry I only want to move to clubs that can fight for league titles, I am a world cup winner after all"

" Nooooo you can't just refuse to leave we will terminate your contract"

" sure go ahead will you be paying in cheque or deposit? "

" but but you will have to go to court for years and we will drag out the case"

" not at all actually, it's pretty clear I've complied with the terms of the contract and arbitration bodies are quick to process these type of cases for unfair unilateral termination of a valid contract, will there be anything else?"

" no sir"

" thanks, anyway I've got to get back to the gym these Instagram pics won't get posted themselves."
 
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