Pep Guardiola

[Windhook]

Literally led to its demise by overcontrolling the flow and making every team sit at the penalty box line for years to come.

It is what it is. We don't see Lewis Hamilton switching mid-race to an inferior car just to make Formula 1 more interesting, right? The sport is played for the win. Also Pep is not the one giving "park the bus" instructions to their opponents. It's simply the only feasible solution for his possession dominated football for most clubs.

 

[KingLeo10]

Can't really claim that cuz his aim wasn't to make a recipe for regular league padding like Pep.

Mou sat for a different reason and teams didn't try to respond by playing sterile football trying to 'dominate' and counteract the parked-bus&surgical-forward-strokes approach intended to give them the biggest chance in 90 mins to score a goal if team locks the other in their own third for 95% of the time.

Pep took the ball and the faith of 80% of less talented/financially poorer teams that they'll ever be able to achieve a desired effect, ergo win/draw, any other way.
Masterful exploitation of the lower class in football.

Was it 6 or 7 wins in a row v Real Madrid.

I'd say you're right.

 

[El Gato]

It is what it is. We don't see Lewis Hamilton switching mid-race to an inferior car just to make Formula 1 more interesting, right?

Precisely it. And why people will never empathize with Pep as much as with other coaches. Because he'll never stoop down below the level of quality he demands from his player and why he'll never reach expectations without the ability to assemble the 'perfect' side. He'll never 'overachieve'.

People park the bus because they're reacting to being exploited. And Pep does it shamelessly. Like every Roman emperor watching his legions destroy people with sticks and stones. Mou did so because it's what worked most often, not because he liked to. Chelsea 05-08 never did that as often as Madrid in a direct meeting vs Pep side in 2010-2012.

Absolutely changed football as we know it and widened the skill gap so far it's barely ever entertaining to watch anymore.

The original father of the Super League.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yeah

For the worse lol

Literally led to its demise by overcontrolling the flow and making every team sit at the penalty box line for years to come.

Changed more teams to copy his approach than to try and counter it.

If some teams changed for worse that is on them.

 

[Windhook]

People park the bus because they're reacting to being exploited. And Pep does it shamelessly. Like every Roman emperor watching his legions destroy people with sticks and stones. Mou did so because it's what worked most often, not because he liked to. Chelsea 05-08 never did that as often as Madrid in a direct meeting vs Pep side in 2010-2012.

Absolutely changed football as we know it and widened the skill gap so far it's barely ever entertaining to watch anymore.

The original father of the Super League.

I think you overdramatize Pep's role as this villain. Clubs were not exploited. Every manager and player on the planet witnessed what happened on the night of 28 April 2010 and took note how to neutralize Pep's tactics. Monumental episode that changed football forever. Jose Mourinho decided to apply Helenio Herrera's Catenaccio against FC Barcelona with 2 goals lead. The rest is history, the famous pitch invasion, Victor Valdes, sprinklers...

 

[serghei]

Wow, Wolfe with the Barca praise like no other. We exploited the other teams and made them feel helpless. Yes, yes we did. Nadal is exploiting dem clay players for two decades too.

 

[El Gato]

Changed more teams to copy his approach than to try and counter it.

If some teams changed for worse that is on them.

Nobody changed for worse. Only bigger of teams raised their level for their own benefit and nobody else's.

On the offense teams copy since easier to exploit the poorer sides.
On defense they copy the approach that is meant to neutralise the offense they themselves employ, as this is the way most opponents anyone faces play these days.
Either way it's become immensely more boring, mechanical, detached, uninspired and dehumanized than anything played before the Pep Barca was a thing.

I think you overdramatize Pep's role as this villain. Clubs were not exploited. Every manager and player on the planet witnessed what happened on the night of 28 April 2010 and took note how to neutralize Pep's tactics. Monumental episode that changed football forever. Jose Mourinho decided to apply Helenio Herrera's Catenaccio against FC Barcelona with 2 goals lead. The rest is history, the famous pitch invasion, Victor Valdes, sprinklers...

Nothing dramatic about it really. Other than the degree to which Pep has created a mass-consumption model of how a good team is supposed to play.

Of course it's based on exploitation. All sport is. Except Pep's way destroyed any chances of accidental mobility across leagues, because managers also think they'll only ever be successful with better players.

Luckily at least Klopp made it so that people run more in a more athletic world and Zidane has caused a surge in self-sustained confidence coaching (i.e. if you have self-esteem and you're talented, you'll play well) in order to counter this sterile vision which permeated through football since 2009. Now there's more activity + confidence on the pitches rather than exasperation when you either suck at doing the uber-control model of Pep's and fail at it, or resignation to your own fate when you can't compete against those that employ it well.

Thank fuck there are still managers that can save the world from the bald visionary's dystopia. Also created from own complexes about overcoming exploitation anyway, so it's mildly understandable how it came around. Control-freaks never design such models with intrinsic good in mind.

 

[serghei]

Pep's Barca exploited La Masia.

 

[Laplacian]

Nobody changed for worse. Only bigger of teams raised their level for their own benefit and nobody else's.

On the offense teams copy since easier to exploit the poorer sides.
On defense they copy the approach that is meant to neutralise the offense they themselves employ, as this is the way most opponents anyone faces play these days.
Either way it's become immensely more boring, mechanical, detached, uninspired and dehumanized than anything played before the Pep Barca was a thing.



Nothing dramatic about it really. Other than the degree to which Pep has created a mass-consumption model of how a good team is supposed to play.

Of course it's based on exploitation. All sport is. Except Pep's way destroyed any chances of accidental mobility across leagues, because managers also think they'll only ever be successful with better players.

Luckily at least Klopp made it so that people run more in a more athletic world and Zidane has caused a surge in self-sustained confidence coaching (i.e. if you have self-esteem and you're talented, you'll play well) in order to counter this sterile vision which permeated through football since 2009. Now there's more activity + confidence on the pitches rather than exasperation when you either suck at doing the uber-control model of Pep's and fail at it, or resignation to your own fate when you can't compete against those that employ it well.

Thank fuck there are still managers that can save the world from the bald visionary's dystopia. Also created from own complexes about overcoming exploitation anyway, so it's mildly understandable how it came around. Control-freaks never design such models with intrinsic good in mind.

Goddamn what a post

 

[JamDav1982]

Nobody changed for worse. Only bigger of teams raised their level for their own benefit and nobody else's.

On the offense teams copy since easier to exploit the poorer sides.
On defense they copy the approach that is meant to neutralise the offense they themselves employ, as this is the way most opponents anyone faces play these days.
Either way it's become immensely more boring, mechanical, detached, uninspired and dehumanized than anything played before the Pep Barca was a thing.



Nothing dramatic about it really. Other than the degree to which Pep has created a mass-consumption model of how a good team is supposed to play.

Of course it's based on exploitation. All sport is. Except Pep's way destroyed any chances of accidental mobility across leagues, because managers also think they'll only ever be successful with better players.

Luckily at least Klopp made it so that people run more in a more athletic world and Zidane has caused a surge in self-sustained confidence coaching (i.e. if you have self-esteem and you're talented, you'll play well) in order to counter this sterile vision which permeated through football since 2009. Now there's more activity + confidence on the pitches rather than exasperation when you either suck at doing the uber-control model of Pep's and fail at it, or resignation to your own fate when you can't compete against those that employ it well.

Thank fuck there are still managers that can save the world from the bald visionary's dystopia. Also created from own complexes about overcoming exploitation anyway, so it's mildly understandable how it came around. Control-freaks never design such models with intrinsic good in mind.

Nah not boring.

Most games v Real were corkers while at Barca, in CL City are in final scoring 4 in each tie so far and in previous years some of most exciting games as City went out in high scoring action packed games to likes of Monaco, Spurs, Lyon etc and before that with Bayern v Barca, Real etc.

Just lazy to claim it has made football boring. Hasnt at all.

 

[Farripas]

Nah not boring.

Most games v Real were corkers while at Barca, in CL City are in final scoring 4 in each tie so far and in previous years some of most exciting games as City went out in high scoring action packed games to likes of Monaco, Spurs, Lyon etc and before that with Bayern v Barca, Real etc.

Just lazy to claim it has made football boring. Hasnt at all.

I love Barcas football with Pep.

And i don't get the criticism. Exploitation and all... Shouldn't you in football (and any sport) try to win? That's the way Pep thinks he can win and others managers do it differentely. And there are those who copy it (or at least try), because he was so successfull. To each his own.

It looks like he tried to win by kidnapping someone's child...Jesus...

 

[El Gato]

Nah not boring.

Most games v Real were corkers while at Barca, in CL City are in final scoring 4 in each tie so far and in previous years some of most exciting games as City went out in high scoring action packed games to likes of Monaco, Spurs, Lyon etc and before that with Bayern v Barca, Real etc.

Just lazy to claim it has made football boring. Hasnt at all.

Mate the model is fucking terrible to watch at most levels and often even when executed by City.
That is for anyone who isn't a control freak that expects everyone to play like an surgeon without making a single bad shot, pass, dribble or whatever else.
Until lately even City itself was a mostly shite watch for a neutral spectator and ever became appreciated only when they are so ruthlessly good at killing competition at any point in a game that you end up admiring how easily they execute their fundamentally evil scheme.
Why do you think neutrals have way more fun watching Liverpool than City?

Scoring doesn't make anything any better anymore. No surprise football went to very different popularity heights when Brazillians and French were killing it in the noughties doing their samba with the ball which didn't almost eliminate the possibility of them ever losing a stretch of games. And decade later people only pay to see it because they've been told 8-0 vs Almeria was so impressive that you're supposed to watch and be in awe.

Like said, most people won't empathize with Pep's vision. Because it's just inhuman really. It strives for perfection and tries to teach it. But its fruits are very different.

 

[JamDav1982]

Mate the model is fucking terrible to watch at most levels and often even when executed by City.
That is for anyone who isn't a control freak that expects everyone to play like an surgeon without making a single bad shot, pass, dribble or whatever else.
Until lately even City itself was a mostly shite watch for a neutral spectator and ever became appreciated only when they are so ruthlessly good at killing competition at any point in a game that you end up admiring how easily they execute their fundamentally evil scheme.
Why do you think neutrals have way more fun watching Liverpool than City?

Scoring doesn't make anything any better anymore. No surprise football went to very different popularity heights when Brazillians and French were killing it in the noughties doing their samba with the ball which didn't almost eliminate the possibility of them ever losing a stretch of games. And decade later people only pay to see it because they've been told 8-0 vs Almeria was so impressive that you're supposed to watch and be in awe.

Like said, most people won't empathize with Pep's vision. Because it's just inhuman really. It strives for perfection and tries to teach it. But its fruits are very different.

It isnt boring and isnt about least errors either. Lots of freedom given to attacking players etc.

City have been one of most praised sides in the world the past few seasons for the way they play, the way individuals within their team play and the number of exciting games been involved in.

Any club in world would love Pep and his style in and not just because it wins.

The halcion days of the noughties you want when bang average Liverpool with defenisve minded coach won one CL and got to final of other. Where Monaco and Porto competed in a final.

Bit too much rose tinted spectacles there when by far the best team to watch in that decade were.... Peps Barca.

 

[Windhook]

Of course it's based on exploitation. All sport is. Except Pep's way destroyed any chances of accidental mobility across leagues, because managers also think they'll only ever be successful with better players.

Luckily at least Klopp made it so that people run more in a more athletic world and Zidane has caused a surge in self-sustained confidence coaching (i.e. if you have self-esteem and you're talented, you'll play well) in order to counter this sterile vision which permeated through football since 2009. Now there's more activity + confidence on the pitches rather than exasperation when you either suck at doing the uber-control model of Pep's and fail at it, or resignation to your own fate when you can't compete against those that employ it well.

Thank fuck there are still managers that can save the world from the bald visionary's dystopia. Also created from own complexes about overcoming exploitation anyway, so it's mildly understandable how it came around. Control-freaks never design such models with intrinsic good in mind.

Klopp fucked up his players, 2 years of crazy running and you get players that are dead tired. They shoot horses, don't they? Now he needs 5-6 new star players to make up for his "mastermind" tactics. Liverpool are on the decline with the current squad and they aren't getting any younger.

Zidane basically reaped Carlo Ancelotti's seeds, and still is. Varane, Ramos, Carvajal, Casemiro, Modric, Isco, Benzema are all players from pre-Zidane era. Sure he's among the greatest motivators in football, but let's talk about his managerial abilities once a rebuilding process starts at Real Madrid. If not fired, of course.

Your hatred for Guardiola is probably shared among most Real Madrid, Chelsea, Man United and Liverpool fans, but I get a lot of neutral feedback from friends and colleagues that prefer watching Guardiola managed teams on the weekends. I guess some people love entertaining football with more goals from creative possessional football, not just corners and penalties.

 

[serghei]

Wolfe's composition summed up. Everyone hates the best, and everyone loves a good underdog.

It's like the movie Rocky. How many people would love the Rocky series if Apollo Creed bounces Rocky out of the ring in round 6 in the first film. Winners are hated, and out of all winners, the ones who humiliate and make rivals feel powerless and helpless like Pep's winning teams, those are hated and disliked the most.

But make no mistake, everyone would want a piece of that. This reminds me of the redcafe topics about Pep being boring. If Pep signs for United, in 1 month they are all licking his balls figuratively speaking.

That's the nature of sports, and being envious of the best is what drives sports forward.