Neymar Jr. - v5

[TornAndFrayed]

I still stand by my theory that big stadiums allow our team to play more comfortably because it helps us pass the ball around better .. We play in stadiums like " ettihad - bernabeu - emirates " a hundred times better than in smaller stadiums.

Just for laughs can you tell me again the dimensions of Camp Nou ?

 

[BBZ8800]

I find this to be a ridiculous statement. Football is not only about ratios and stats. You are forgetting about the aspect of football that cannot be put into numbers. Neymar's undeniable footballing quality far exceeds any replacement we have for him.

Take Messi vs Ronaldo as an example. If you only looked at their stats alone and never watched a single game they played, you would think that they are both on the same level. But Messi has qualities that no stat or ratio could ever tell you. Messi has certain skills that you can only see by watching the game.

Neymar, just like Messi, brings added footballing quality that you do not see from the ratios. To drop Neymar and replace him with Paco/Turan/Denis is just madness. The overall footballing quality of the side declines without Neymar.

Ibrahimovic was one of the best forwards in the world, yet we would play 10 times better with weaker players who fit our system more.

A better player doesnt mean a better end product for a team.

Neymar is the best lw in the world.
That doesn't mean that we wouldn't play better longterm with someone inferior on individual level.

Masch is one of the best cdms in the world.
In Barca, even someone inferior in general as a cdm like roberto is a much better fit.
Alexis was superior individual player to Pedro, yet Pedro is a 10 times better fit for Barca.

It's not all about numbers, but it isn't all about individual quality either.

About replies that with Neymar we played tougher matches:
Alaves 1:2
Atl 1:1
Celta 3:4
Man city 1:3
Malaga 0:0
Sociedad 1:1
Real 1:1
Bilbao 1:2
Villareal 1:1
Betis 1:1
Psg 0:4
Malaga 0:2
Juve 0:0, 0:3

When you remove big matches, even then we have more slips against normal teams with Neymar on the team.

Also, if checking stats how a team plays WITH AND WITHOUT some player is not a good indicator, I don't have an idea how to measure it in a better way.

We should just trust "subjective" measurements?
Everyone has their own subjective measurements.
Mine is that Ney is bringing some qualities to the team, but also that he is ruining a lot of things.

Time will tell which one was more important for our results.

 

[clemente]

I think what he brings a lot to the team is that he provokes the most fauls, so many that if we weren't Barcelona our opponents would get sent off in the first half. But thats the problem, only after 30+ min referees even consider pulling out their yellows, and they consider its Neymar so even if its a yellow worthy challenge you already know referee won't pull out his cards. I believe with video refs next season this might change and Neymar will be even more crucial for our team.

 

[Windhook]

I love his provocative style, that humiliation which in some cases draw a yellow card for the opponent. The problem is Neymar's attitude after being fouled which gets him a booking, too. This is a HUGE problem. Should keep his mouth shut. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[abiabi]

Yesterday we ran 7km more than Madrid. That's probably one of the reasons we won..

We were getting out ran by every opponent basically.

 

[Total-Football]

Yesterday we ran 7km more than Madrid. That's probably one of the reasons we won..

We were getting out ran by every opponent basically.

Kilometers matter . the more you run the more you're more likely to win .. this is not an opinion it's a conclusion i have made observing those numbers for years.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

Kilometers matter . the more you run the more you're more likely to win .. this is not an opinion it's a conclusion i have made observing those numbers for years.

Hey hey how about your opinion... ahem... conclusion on the camp nou dimensions ?

Fuelled by years of experience and observation.

Share the wisdom pls we are not worthy

 

[Total-Football]

Why are u stalking me mate. I have said that i don't believe those numbers 100% even if they were "official" .. And when it comes to Professional sport at the highest level a 2 or 3 meters difference in lenght and width has proven to be decisive.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

Why are u stalking me mate.

You got a nice rack.

Thanks for the wisdom. I hope you'll soon write in your inimitable style why Neymar was the best player in the world from September to December 2016. Maybe he's the best at exploiting the trumped up Camp Nou dimensions ? Anyway, hope to read more on that subject.

 

[Horatio]

I hear Neymar has a clause in his contract that stipulates he earns a bonus if he doesn't argue about his position XD.

 

[BBZ8800]

I think what he brings a lot to the team is that he provokes the most fauls, so many that if we weren't Barcelona our opponents would get sent off in the first half. But thats the problem, only after 30+ min referees even consider pulling out their yellows, and they consider its Neymar so even if its a yellow worthy challenge you already know referee won't pull out his cards. I believe with video refs next season this might change and Neymar will be even more crucial for our team.

About that part with fouls, often it seems as if he is "enjoying" in those fouls.
You probably know that situation when he gets the ball, hog the ball and starts to dribble towards our goal (with the defender on his back all the time) and then in one moment he stops, holds the ball again, turns his back/ass towards the opponent and waits until the opponent fouls him (kicks his legs).
If the opponent doesn't foul him, he waits even longer and longer until an opponent finally kicks his legs.

Then he falls on the ground, holds his legs and looks at a referee more or less saying: ref, did you see? He kicked me.

More or less, I see those actions of his as: I will take the ball and I won't pass the ball to anyone until an opponent will kick me.
To some extent, as if he is provoking fouls and as if he isn't interested in passing the ball to someone else.
He just waits (this is my view) for a foul, even though he can stop that duel easily with passing the ball to Busi/Iniesta/Alba/Umtiti.

Another interesting fact: in a match against Real, when there was NO Neymar on a field and when he wasn't hogging the ball and provoking fouls (my view, again), RM made only 2-3 fouls in the first half (Casemiro on Messi and Marcelo on Messi).
Again, this is only my view, but if Neymar was on a field, RM would probably have 10 fouls in the first half, with at least 5-6-7 fouls on Neymar.

Again, this is just a personal view on this "problem", but I really see those Ney's runs (which end as fouls) as:
1) a normal player will take the ball and pass it eventually, and he will get fouled once in 10 actions
2) Neymar will take the ball and force actions/dribbles/duels which often have 0% chance to create anything (since he is dribbling backwards at the centre of a pitch) and he will hog the ball until he gets fouled and that will happen in roughly 50% in those actions.

I will draw an analogy with Pep's Tiki-Taka:
= since you are not allowed to take risks and lose the possession (when trying a counter), you will more or less "force" the opponents to sit back, and return to their defensive shape, and park the bus since you are giving them time to park the bus each time because you don't want to play a faster action
So, it isn't as if opponents are parking the bus ONLY on purpose against Tiki-Taka, but more or less, teams who play Tiki-Taka are "forcing" the opponents to park a bus.
On the other hand, if Barca will play more risky, with more counters, an opponent won't be able to park the bus that fast.
So, to some extent=HOW you play is reflected in the response from the opponent's team.

The same is (imo) with Neymar and fouls.
Without him on a field, our players don't hog the ball and nobody is "looking" to get fouled on purpose.
And opponents will have less fouls on our players.
When Ney is on a field, his style of play (but I am not talking about dribbles here, since Messi also dribbles but gets fouled way less than Ney, since he isn't "looking/provoking" to get fouled on purpose) will just call or force the opponents to foul him when he does his backward-dribbling-hogging-the ball-run.

And then, when Neymar does that backwards dribbling a few times, he will already start fights with the opponents who kicked his legs, and then in upcoming minutes, the opponents will start to hit him even more and more even in regular actions (when he is dribbling TOWARDS the opponent's goal).

So, in the beginning, Ney is fouled in a silly way, because he is hogging the ball and asking for a foul.
Then he gets pissed off and probably says something to opponents.
Then they get pissed off and after that, every action is a horror show with criminal tackles.

All in all, one more time, without Neymar on a field, RM almost didn't create any fouls on our guys.
That's not a coincidence.

So, about that part how Neymar is fouled a lot, a huge part of guilt is on him, how he provokes the opponents early in the match and then later it all ends wrong both ways.

 

[clemente]

He is dribbling the ball back but its the defenders choice to hug on his back and try to take the ball away aggressively, they can choose to just run back and defend conservatively, yet they hog on his back, and then kick his legs until he fells, they should get booked for that but rarely get because its Neymar. And I am not sure about the point you are trying to make about RM match, Messi himself provoked Casemiro to get sent off in the first half, Ramos sent off in the 2nd half, and many yellows, we played without Neymar but still got fauled a lot.

 

[Horatio]

I am convinced Neymar's current style is a result of a broken system. His Brazil performance proves it.
He will shine again once we have some things fixed.

 

[evilhita666]

I think people saying we play better without Neymar are getting too carried away by the result, it's not like we schooled RM; the game was only decided in our favor because Messi wanted to...

We still conceded twice and RM created way too many chances, while we didn't create as much as we should have even if Raki and Iniesta were slightly better than usual, which has nothing to do with Neymar... On top of that RM also had plenty of mistakes of their own, both in defense and attack, that are not related to our virtues...

Despite the overall motivation improvement of the team, the key factor was Messi and only Messi, and even with D10S in our side the game could have gone either way...

I feel "dirty" having to defend the brazilian, but it is what it is, hahahaha...

 

[Horatio]

Agree. Ridiculous to state we won because of Neymar being left out.