Nations League 24/25

P

Porque

Senior Member
Maradona37 said:
So many elite national powerhouses have declined, haven't they? Was football just better 20 years ago?

Brazil, Italy, Netherlands are the main culprits. Spain are still good but not as good as they were (though that is harsh as I am comparing to their best ever team).

Argentina, England, France are probably all better than they were. Though the Argies were brilliant in 2006 and Pekerman fucked them. Germany go through spells where they're good then poor. Curiously, France, Germany and England have extremely strong youth set ups and have poured money into youth development (France since the 90s) and are reaping the benefits. Portugal are up and down and the 'Ronaldo factor' obviously makes them an outlier as he is holding them back. Belgium improved but have dropped off again as their golden generation aged. Croatia got better but they were good in the 90s too as a new nation.

So am I imagining it or are the bigger teams just getting worse? Even watching tournaments from the 90s football looked much better, but it could be my young boy teenage nostalgia kicking in. Am I basing this entirely on the present state of Brazil and Italy?

Thoughts?
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Football has changed.

All of the nations are better, but the team play is worse.

Robotic club football lite.
 
Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
Porque said:
Football has changed.

All of the nations are better, but the team play is worse.

Robotic club football lite.
Click to expand...
What do you mean they're better? In terms of talent?

I think across the board, the mid and smaller nations have closed the gap, but at the absolute top - the elite players and sides - there's been a slight decline.

But, as I say, maybe I am just thinking entirely of Italy and Brazil.
 
MonteCuler

MonteCuler

Well-known member
Maradona37 said:
Yes.

I mean it's a hard one on Spain - they're still pretty good and are European champions, but obviously the golden generation team was better.

Even when I watch international tournaments, they don't seem as good as the past, 2022 aside. Though it could be (as I said before) my nostalgia goggles.

I think football as a whole is more athletic and more coached to within an inch of players' lives these days. I love Pep as a coach but he definitely does a lot of that too. I do like great tactical systems but I confess a yearning for more off the cuff football of the past, where athleticism didn't rule supreme.

Plenty of of players now are poor footballers but get by on being big, fast and strong.
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I think it'll change soon, this is no doubt true and a lot of people are starting to get it. I saw Fabregas not long ago speaking about it. Guys like Flick and Slot bring more direct and dynamic football to life. For me personally this season is the most enjoyable in a long time and it's not just about Barca being better.
 
Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
MonteCuler said:
I think it'll change soon, this is no doubt true and a lot of people are starting to get it. I saw Fabregas not long ago speaking about it. Guys like Flick and Slot bring more direct and dynamic football to life. For me personally this season is the most enjoyable in a long time and it's not just about Barca being better.
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Fair enough, it's been talked about ad infinitum yeah.

Guys like Birdy think we are just old men yelling at clouds, and missing our youth, but I think there's a degree of truth in it. It does FEEL like current players rely much more on athleticism than players in the past did. But then that makes sense with the increasing professionalism and dedication - you need to be in great shape to play. Matt Le Tissier for example couldn't survive in this era.

Or maybe I am underestimating the fitness of past players? And overestimating some now? Because even now some players go out and party and don't take care of themselves. But they seem to be punished more for it than in the 90s, where their talent would have seen them get by to a point.
 
P

Porque

Senior Member
Maradona37 said:
What do you mean they're better? In terms of talent?

I think across the board, the mid and smaller nations have closed the gap, but at the absolute top - the elite players and sides - there's been a slight decline.

But, as I say, maybe I am just thinking entirely of Italy and Brazil.
Click to expand...

Well if we compare Spain to 15 years back. This one is physically fitter and quicker.

So if we dropped that team into today's football, they would get overworked. BUT if we put those TALENTS under the assumption of modern training regimes and how these players would be under them, then they are better.

Still, Spain WC2010. I still remember losing the opener to the Swiss, squeezing past Paraguay on pens with iirc Casillas having to save a pen in open play. A good but close performance over Porkchop with a ET winner until finally the game everyone remembers them for, comfortably beating Germany in the Semi.

Then the final could have gone any way and Robben missing a chance better than what Iniesta scored.

In the end that team bar the Germany game wasn't THAT impressive.. But the winners shape the narrative.

PS: Euro 2012 was the best version.
 
Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
Porque said:
Well if we compare Spain to 15 years back. This one is physically fitter and quicker.

So if we dropped that team into today's football, they would get overworked. BUT if we put those TALENTS under the assumption of modern training regimes and how these players would be under them, then they are better.

Still, Spain WC2010. I still remember losing the opener to the Swiss, squeezing past Paraguay on pens with iirc Casillas having to save a pen in open play. A good but close performance over Porkchop with a ET winner until finally the game everyone remembers them for, comfortably beating Germany in the Semi.

Then the final could have gone any way and Robben missing a chance better than what Iniesta scored.

In the end that team bar the Germany game wasn't THAT impressive.. But the winners shape the narrative.

PS: Euro 2012 was the best version.
Click to expand...
Yeah that is true. You are talking about superior fitness which I agree with. Though I would say that 12-15 years ago isn't THAT long ago, and professionalism was quite high then too. So you never know. Maybe Xavi's Spain wouldn't let Rodri's have the ball. But overall i agree with your point.

Also agree Euro 2012 was peak Spain.
 
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