Mateo Kovačić

[Co0ter]

Why are people so freaked out about Kovacic signing for RM? He wasn't even a starter for Inter last year and now he's supposed to be a world beater? We'll see how good he'll eventually become but I haven't seen too many players really develop at Madrid, even less if they don't play regularly. I reckon half the people complaining here have never seen Kovacic play.

I'm complaining exactly BECAUSE I've watched him play a lot and if you'd actually watched him play you'd feel the same way. No one is saying he is a "world beater" or the best player ever, but he just turned 21 like two months ago.

I not only see him already for the player he is, but the player he can potentially become as well. The TYPE of player he can become..which is a CM who can protect the ball, has a high workrate, good vision and is totally explosive. He leaves 2-3 players behind with one turn and two steps. Whether or not he develops at RM is irrelevant, not sure why you mention it. What is relevant is he had every single quality and more to be a perfect LCM for us.

 

[serghei]

Relax guys, I'm sure that next summer we'll act on the market, once we're clear of that ban.

And if we're speaking about potential and future value, Halilovic is one of the best 19 years old in the world. His potential is huge.

 

[BBZ8800]

I'm more worried about RM snatching up yet another promising player in Kovacic rather than the player himself. That's been the trend for them the last few years while we fill our bench with dead weight.

But it is somewhat logical.

Imagine that you are a president of the 2nd best team in the world (Real).
And your main opponent (Barcelona) has Messi.

1. if you invest 500 Millions in your team, Messi and Barca will win everything again
2. if you invest only 100 Millions in your team, Messi and Barca will win again

-- so, since we are currently almost unbeatable with Messi, our opponents (or our MAIN opponent) have only two options:
1. splash money for short team=and they will lose against Messi
2. or turn to a long term plans and trying to slowly build a team for days AFTER Messi, when we will be just a regular mortals again

So, if Real are not idiots, it is very understandable what are they doing.
On the other hand, we our not idiots either, and we know what Messi means, so we are investing everything in RIGHT now (while we have Messi).

Some people will reply now: but why don't we invest both in right now and for the future?
= that way, there is a chance that we won't win anything right now, and also, when Messi will be gone, we will be just one out of random, equally strong top5 teams in the world.

Again, every team is in a different situation right now.
In sport, everything goes in cycles.

What Real is doing right now, is the only logical thing.
We have done the same in 2003-2004-2005, when Real had Galacticos, and when THEY needed to play for "right now".
We had nothing to lose, we turned to building a young team with Ronnie, Etoo and a bunch of players who haven't won anything, and that's it.

 

[DonAndres]

I'm not too worried for now. If we buy Pogba, we will have the best young player in the world and the best young midfielder in the world.

Kovacic for 30m is a fantastic deal economically, which the Pogba deal will almost surely not be. Pogba's also not the best young midfielder in the world. Actually, it's pretty arguable whether or not Pogba even belongs in the top 5 young midfielders in football (23 and under by the end of 14/15). Verratti, Isco, Koke, and James have all easily shown more than Pogba has at different points in their career. Thiago too but he's suffered a lot of injury time and just recently turned 24 so he misses out on the young midfielder classification.

 

[Co0ter]

Relax guys, I'm sure that next summer we'll act on the market, once we're clear of that ban.

And if we're speaking about potential and future value, Halilovic is one of the best 19 years old in the world. His potential is huge.

I'm glad you edited your post because I was going to say you must be trolling...

Although I disagree, he is all talent and no brain. Unless he is head down and dribbling he has no idea what he's doing until proven otherwise.

 

[serghei]

Actually, it's pretty arguable whether or not Pogba even belongs in the top 5 young midfielders in football (23 and under by the end of 14/15).

And yet, he's rated by most as the best. He's like Neymar when we signed him, IMO, the best young player in his position and just a step away from being truly world class.

 

[DonAndres]

And yet, he's rated by most as the best. He's like Neymar when we signed him, IMO, the best young player in his position.

Not really interested in that. How would you compare him to those 4? Let's talk facts and not reputation. Verratti is clearly the best young midfielder in football, and the other 3 have shown more than Pogba has in his career. The fact that Pogba has garnered more hype than Verratti doesn't make him better.

 

[khaled_a_d]

And what if we ended up not signing Pogba? It is not a sure thing. In a few years time I am afraid we will experience pains replacing the starting XI, not to mention building depth. God help us that La Masia will provide a few options.

What I don't get is, how come Real Madrid can sign all these young talents and not worried about them wanting to leave, meanwhile ours seem to be such an impatient bunch that as long as they don't get promoted and getting a lot of playing time with the first team they want to get the hell out?

There is huge difference in wages for a player with 1st team than B team .players want promotion b/c they can get their 1st real paycheck
We had many patient players like Bartra/Montoya/Roberto/JDS who didn't complain tht much or caused trouble about playing time .
I am sure if they were better player we could have kept them like RM if we didn't accept clauses in their contract that will allow them to move cheaply like Thiago
It is all about having competent sporting director .hopefully Robert Fernandez will be better than Zubi

 

[khaled_a_d]

But it is somewhat logical.

Imagine that you are a president of the 2nd best team in the world (Real).
And your main opponent (Barcelona) has Messi.

1. if you invest 500 Millions in your team, Messi and Barca will win everything again
2. if you invest only 100 Millions in your team, Messi and Barca will win again

-- so, since we are currently almost unbeatable with Messi, our opponents (or our MAIN opponent) have only two options:
1. splash money for short team=and they will lose against Messi
2. or turn to a long term plans and trying to slowly build a team for days AFTER Messi, when we will be just a regular mortals again

So, if Real are not idiots, it is very understandable what are they doing.

You have gone too far with your logic tbh
RM was the 2014 CL champions ,they have the 2nd greatest thing after Messi and his true rival (deservingly) and they are trying to win every trophy .they have never accepted being 2nd to us and always fight for every title and has gr8 team who can easily win CL again .they aren't sacrificing present for the future by any mean
8 months ago they were the present and we were considered the past
They are absolutly nothing compared to our 2000-2003 run .that comparison is absurd man

 

[Stric]

You have gone too far with your logic tbh
RM was the 2014 CL champions ,they have the 2nd greatest thing after Messi and his true rival (deservingly) and they are trying to win every trophy .they have never accepted being 2nd to us and always fight for every title and has gr8 team who can easily win CL again .they aren't sacrificing present for the future by any mean
8 months ago they were the present and we were considered the past
They are absolutly nothing compared to our 2000-2003 run .that comparison is absurd man

Very good point, but in all honesty, RM is nothing compared to us in the last 10-ish years combined. We've been significantly more successful.

 

[serghei]

Not really interested in that. How would you compare him to those 4? Let's talk facts and not reputation. Verratti is clearly the best young midfielder in football, and the other 3 have shown more than Pogba has in his career. The fact that Pogba has garnered more hype than Verratti doesn't make him better.

Facts? Good. Pogba at 22 is one of France's most important players at NT level, three time Champion of Italy with Juve, Champions League finalst in 14-15, FIFA U20 World Cup winner with France (as captain) and player of the tournament, part of Serie A team of the year 2013-14. I'd say it's pretty impressive, at only 22.

If I could choose any player from the ones you listed for our LCM spot, I'd choose Pogba (cost aside).

 

[khaled_a_d]

Very good point, but in all honesty, RM is nothing compared to us in the last 10-ish years combined. We've been significantly more successful.

5 years ago they weren't even interested in young players.not sure why we should talk about such long time
The point stands ,they aren't rebuilding .they are competing and building the best team they can and they still won some trophies(1st CL in 12 years) and had their times as better team than us like 2014 and 2012 while going after young players too

 

[DonAndres]

Facts? Good. Pogba at 22 is one of France's most important players at NT level, three time Champion of Italy with Juve, Champions League finalst in 14-15, FIFA U20 World Cup winner with France (as captain) and player of the tournament, part of Serie A team of the year 2013-14. I'd say it's pretty impressive, at only 22.

If I could choose any player from the ones you listed for our LCM spot, I'd choose Pogba (cost aside).

Fair enough. He does have an impressive career so far. I'd still disagree that he's shown more than any of the 4 players performance-wise.

-Verratti was the best player in Ligue 1 last year and had absolute masterclass performances against Chelsea in both legs and vs. Barcelona in the quarters. His talent and abilities are there for all to see and he shines both domestically and in the hardest games of the CL.
-Koke is regularly one of the highest assisters in La Liga and has been a big game player for Atletico against Barca, RM, and Chelsea numerous times over the past few years.
-Isco has also shown his aptitude against the likes of Barca/Atleti many times and excelled in la liga and the CL. He wasn't even a starter for the CL final he played and did much better than Pogba did this year.
-James' record is probably the best out of all of them. WC Golden Boot, double digit assists/goals in his first year for RM, possibly the best performer they had this season depending on how you rate Ronaldo's goal-influence this year.

This is without counting ANY youth achievements.

All of these players are more creative than Pogba, better off the ball, and average more passes per game than Pogba. Also, they've all shown a high level of aptitude against the best teams in the world and in the CL. Pogba's CL season was actually poor on an individual level if you look at his performances (some say he actually did awesomely vs Barca , go back and compare his performance to that of Verratti/Isco/James against Barca in the same season and you'd probably laugh). His most consistent streak individually speaking was for some months in the Serie A midseason 14/15, where he did show a lot of ability and promise. Still, that's a pretty finite sample space in a league where he faces very little high pressing and where the likes of 38 year old Luca Toni can be top goalscorer.

 

[DonAK]

Facts these days = My opinion and whatever floats my boat and my definition of it

"Facts"

 

[serghei]

[MENTION=12906]DonAndres[/MENTION], Pogba had a muscle tear IIRC and he barely made the 2nd leg vs Real. And in that 2nd half against Real, when Juve won the tie basically, he was very good. Pogba played against Barca one time, after he just recovered from a muscle tear. Hardly relevant. In the end, we like the players we like. You can obviously make a case for Koke, Isco and others, just like I can for Pogba. I like Pogba more and I think he'd fit nicely in our team atm.