Martin Braithwaite

[JamDav1982]

He's an average player who on top of being average is also played in a bad position for him. He was bought to be a back-up striker and that's all. What's worse for him is that I don't see the same involvement and work rate either. And if that goes, he kind of goes.

He wasnt bought to be a back up striker and thats all.

Was bought after Demebele got injured and was expected to be able to cover out wide just as much as at CF and can do neither.

 

[serghei]

He wasnt bought to be a back up striker and thats all.

Was bought after Demebele got injured and was expected to be able to cover out wide just as much as at CF and can do neither.

Doubt it. I remember it was between him and Angel from Getafe at the time. Now that Angel dude is a 33-year-old player who is not a winger. Suarez was injured too at that time wasn't he?

 

[JamDav1982]

Doubt it. I remember it was between him and Angel from Getafe at the time. Now that Angel dude is a 33-year-old player who is not a winger. Suarez was injured too at that time wasn't he?

Doubt it all you like he was bought due to Demebele injury and looking for someone believed could cover out wide.

Yes Suarez was injured before window closed and they did not move for a CF then.

 

[CatalinR10]

this guy is soooooooooo bad

 

[serghei]

Doubt it all you like he was bought due to Demebele injury and looking for someone believed could cover out wide.

Yes Suarez was injured before window closed and they did not move for a CF then.

They wouldn't have approached Angel Rodriguez then who is a center forward and has no business playing winger. They were looking mainly for someone to play CF in the absence of Suarez.

 

[JamDav1982]

They wouldn't have approached Angel Rodriguez then. They were looking mainly for someone to play CF in the absence of Suarez.

Yes they would have as if they could not have got someone that they believed could cover both wide and at CF they would then go for one or the other and they chose not to sign the CF for cheaper.

Braithwaite was signed with belief he could cover CF and wide and he cant.

 

[Windhook]

The guy was bought as a cheap replacement being some sort of hybrid between Dembele and Suarez.

Sadly, he is still cheap replacement and plays as such.

 

[BarcaOG]

Imagine my lack of surprise when Middlesbrough flop Martin Braithwaite looks hopeless playing for Barcelona.

this is more proof (if ever it was needed) that all those fancy xG stats and blah blah blah are a bunch of bullshit that 'serious analysts' like to throw at each other when reality (results, actual goals or assists made) don't go their way

 

[El Gato]

That's certainly a funny definition of 'proof'.

 

[BarcaOG]

That's certainly a funny definition of 'proof'.

fretting and crying about xG and all that nonsense is the modern equivalent of medieval scholars debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin: you can mount elaborate and intricate arguments in support of any position whatever, though it is to no avail since the question itself is irrelevant because it does not matter, and makes no difference, in the real world.

xg does not win games, or titles, nor earn anyone real accolades. Unless you are absurd enough to propose the xG d'Or


ps. no hard feelings Wolfe, I value and respect your takes on most things, but i simply see no merit whatever on dwelling on speculative hypotheticals

 

[Messigician]

What is it that I claimed? Give us your steelman

Exactly what he wrote above clown

 

[El Gato]

Do you see anyone fretting or crying? Anyone other than you that is lol, you're the one that vents unprompted.

Argument makes no sense as Braithwaite doesn't even look good on xG and nobody claimed he does far as I remember in this thread - biggest underperformer of all your attackers in Liga, as you see in reality. Should have more goals (~3-4 minimum) than he does. Only point ever been made is that Barca had a tendency to look better with him than without him/different player at CF in recent months.

Likewise I've got no major bone to pick here, but you have this silly tendency to be dense about measuring performance of attacking players and projecting insecurity over not understanding any stats but the simplest ones. Claiming goals + assists or even that silly thing you brought up another time with appearances (while disregarding minutes played) being the be-all measurement when it's mostly shit bar the most jarring extremes (i.e. Ronaldo having goal per game in the last decade). How impactful was Iniesta with his almighty 6 assists per 60 game season from AM/LW pre-Pep era? lol

 

[Messigician]

Did he really try to compare Iniesta with Braithwaite...

 

[BarcaOG]

Do you see anyone fretting or crying? Anyone other than you that is lol, you're the one that vents unprompted.

Argument makes no sense as Braithwaite doesn't even look good on xG and nobody claimed he does far as I remember in this thread - biggest underperformer of all your attackers in Liga, as you see in reality. Should have more goals (~3-4 minimum) than he does. Only point ever been made is that Barca had a tendency to look better with him than without him/different player at CF in recent months.

Likewise I've got no major bone to pick here, but you have this silly tendency to be dense about measuring performance of attacking players and projecting insecurity over not understanding any stats but the simplest ones. Claiming goals + assists or even that silly thing you brought up another time with appearances (while disregarding minutes played) being the be-all measurement when it's mostly shit bar the most jarring extremes (i.e. Ronaldo having goal per game in the last decade). How impactful was Iniesta with his almighty 6 assists per 60 game season from AM/LW pre-Pep era? lol

Actually I am moved to respond to the silly xG nonsense because I see it pop up over and over as an 'argument'. You point exactly to the issue: it doesn't matter how many more goals he 'should have'. That sort of claim is as persuasive as saying that, had the 'weather' been different, or some other silly hypothetical, outcomes would have changed. Maybe. Maybe not. Doesn't matter: the absolute totals are what determine matches, titles, and awards.

I don't care to understand a 'simple stat' which has no bearing on the real world. It's about as meaningful as counting how many blades of grass each player steps on per game--by which I mean that it means jack shit. In the other thread where we took up this issue you failed to respond to the point I think Morten (?) made which suggests that Lewandowski is a very average forward according to xG.

 

[El Gato]

Actually I am moved to respond to the silly xG nonsense because I see it pop up over and over as an 'argument'. You point exactly to the issue: it doesn't matter how many more goals he 'should have'. That sort of claim is as persuasive as saying that, had the 'weather' been different, or some other silly hypothetical, outcomes would have changed. Maybe. Maybe not. Doesn't matter: the absolute totals are what determine matches, titles, and awards.

You're not moved to 'respond' - nobody mentioned it here yesterday and it's not been mentioned since I had a chat with James about it. You're moved to stick it to people thinking something's been proven. To which I can just smile and nod

It's not a problem at all. Absolutes do not define everything concretely, hence you need better measures and xG is used as an argument because it does relatively well to measure chance quality.
Plenty of players who have a relatively poorer (by standards set in last decade for non-Messi/Ronaldo players) goal totals who influenced titles and awards. And plenty of examples where assist # doesn't define the level of a creator.

Iniesta - ~5 league assists on average pre 2009 despite playing 45+ games per season
Sneijder - under 10 league assists as a #10 in all but 3 years of his career in top flight football
Robben - same thing
Xavi - not counting Qatar, 5 seasons with 10+ league assists

By that standard Ronaldo was a better final passer than all of the above as had 6 seasons with 10+ league assists

In the other thread where we took up this issue you failed to respond to the point I think Morten (?) made which suggests that Lewandowski is a very average forward according to xG.

Responded to it there and then and you didn't understand the argument because you continue to not understand what makes xG big or small.
Lewandowski is average in terms of having good quality chances as do most forwards. As ever it's about his skill in generating a larger volume that influences the totals on every metric. Same with Ronaldo or other scorers who get to good positions with more ease. In fact that same article Morten posted explicitly said so.

Anyway. Should probably move this discussion out of Braithwaite thread as it has little to do with him. It's been established he's not doing nearly as well as he should, even for a backup vs bottom 10 Liga level, also backed up by stats.