Lionel Messi - v7

[KingLeo10]

Romario and R9 are nowhere close to Messi or CR7 legacy wise.

My point wasn't they're inferior. My point is they're not a tier above those. They're both among the all time greats but not head and shoulders above as 6 and 5 Ballon D'Or would suggest.

They don't do well when things are not stacked in their favor.

 

[Horatio]

It?s happening dawgs. He?s either staying or leaving.

 

[Richard.H]

Romario and R9 are nowhere close to Messi or CR7.

Definitely not, that's one of the bigger hot takes I've seen on this forum. R9 in his prime could barely play a full season without injuries. Messi 10-12, CR7 07-08 are better than any R9 and Romario season.


Messi is on the highest echelon of legends, with CR7 closely following him.

 

[Andresito]

He's not decisive and shouldn't be held responsible for swaying board decisions, because Barto had wrong priorities from starters, but the fact he didn't realise the weight of his endorsements for Valverde and likely the silence in the face of waning powers of his mates make him at least partly accountable. He is stupid, at least to a degree. Then again, which great player wasn't? Couldn't name one if you tried, all are fallible; be it CR (money), Buffon (trophy chasing and denial), Casillas (media and politics) etc etc

Yeah I agree he's part of the problem, be it a small part. His influence could probably have gotten the board sacked had he wanted to in 2015 or 2017.
But as you say no player is smart or ballsy enough to execute such a plan. And it's not Messi's responsibility to do so either.

As I said, he was personally doing great under Valverde. Maybe he wasn't smart enough to see it from a team perspective. Maybe he thought he could carry the team as long as he was doing good, and he almost did it all the way.

 

[DonAK]

I hated his endorsement of Valverde, but CR endorsed Ancelotti and Florentino still binned him.

The fact that we're blaming Messi for our President being a gutless, spineless and clueless piece of shit is incredible.

 

[Andresito]

Recency bias.

A big part of Messi is the stats, the goals the titles. But in the end what made people consider him the GOAT is what he was able to do on the pitch for almost 15 years, the stats are only the icing on the cake.
Incomparable.

 

[Marshall D Teach]

Yeah I agree he's part of the problem, be it a small part. His influence could probably have gotten the board sacked had he wanted to in 2015 or 2017.
But as you say no player is smart or ballsy enough to execute such a plan. And it's not Messi's responsibility to do so either.

As I said, he was personally doing great under Valverde. Maybe he wasn't smart enough to see it from a team perspective. Maybe he thought he could carry the team as long as he was doing good, and he almost did it all the way.

But he can't. So if he wants to stop losing, he needs to take a step back and start sacrificing for the team instead of the other way round.

 

[serghei]

I hated his endorsement of Valverde, but CR endorsed Ancelotti and Florentino still binned him.

The fact that we're blaming Messi for our President being a gutless, spineless and clueless piece of shit is incredible.

Good. Because we're not. Those two are not related. As said in the poll. Bartomeu + Amigos. Bartomeu being the main responsible is well established, that's why less comments are about him.

Just because Messi is occupying more forum space, doesn't mean he is more to blame than Bartomeu. It' just that the subject is more controversial and up in the air at the moment, whereas about Bartomeu everything is clear and settled.

 

[DonAK]

Good. Because we're not.

Some of you definitely are.

 

[Andresito]

But he can't. So if he wants to stop losing, he needs to take a step back and start sacrificing for the team instead of the other way round.

He was very close to doing it almost a year ago. But yeah, I think now it's set in stone that he/we can't keep doing things the same way we've been doing for the past years.

 

[KingLeo10]

Recency bias.

A big part of Messi is the stats, the goals the titles. But in the end what made people consider him the GOAT is what he was able to do on the pitch for almost 15 years, the stats are only the icing on the cake.
Incomparable.

I agree to an extent but I find it hard to use words like incomparable in relation to him these days.

For reference, my standard of GOAT is Jordan. Best performances (which Messi has done on average last 15 years) plus best mentality (I would say he's second here behind CR7 or worse).

So, Messi doesn't make that cut. He's more along the lines of Federer, for whom there'll always be contention with Djokovic and Nadal because when he had the chance to become the undisputed greatest ever (all those 5-6 championship points v Djoko) he wasn't decisive/cutthroat enough.

 

[serghei]

I agree to an extent but I find it hard to use words like incomparable in relation to him these days.

For reference, my standard of GOAT is Jordan. Best performances (which Messi has done on average last 15 years) plus best mentality (I would say he's second here behind CR7 or worse).

So, Messi doesn't make that cut. He's more along the lines of Federer, for whom there'll always be contention with Djokovic and Nadal because when he had the chance to become the undisputed greatest ever (all those 5-6 championship points v Djoko) he wasn't decisive/cutthroat enough.

Good comparison.

Messi certainly has weaknesses that, in spite of his enormous talent, make him not clearly better than either his current era rival (Ronaldo mostly) or other greats (although you kind of pushed it with Romario and Ronaldo).

I don't get why people aren't satisfied with one of the greatest of all time. And leave it at that. Since when has a compliment of such magnitude became an insult or degrading.

 

[DonAK]

Basketball and Tennis is a poor comparison. Basketball is a far more individualistic sport where one player on his day genuinely can take over the game.

In football you need your team mates to support you. No player has ever won a major title singlehandedly. A player can take you very far though and Messi did that last season until it collapsed in Anfield where he actually played well for the most part.

Tom Brady has six championship rings and in four of them he didn't even play that well in the Super Bowl. His best performance was vs. the Eagles where he lost because his defense couldn't stop leaking and his team mates dropped some important catches.

That's how it goes in football too.

 

[Horatio]

I don't get why people aren't satisfied with one of the greatest of all time. And leave it at that.

You backed off on your initial statement though which was Messi one of the greatest for Barca. He?s obviously the greatest.
At the same time I can agree with you saying he?s one of the greatest of all time.

 

[Andresito]

I agree to an extent but I find it hard to use words like incomparable in relation to him these days.

For reference, my standard of GOAT is Jordan. Best performances (which Messi has done on average last 15 years) plus best mentality (I would say he's second here behind CR7 or worse).

So, Messi doesn't make that cut. He's more along the lines of Federer, for whom there'll always be contention with Djokovic and Nadal because when he had the chance to become the undisputed greatest ever (all those 5-6 championship points v Djoko) he wasn't decisive/cutthroat enough.

I'm not saying the football he plays today is incomparable, but rather during his career.

You're saying Messi, despite all the carrying, failed to carry enough? You expected him, despite Barca rarely having the world's best team after Pep or even playing the best football, that Messi should've done a lot more?
I've been disappointed in Messi many times, but what he's done for so long, I can't imagine someone else doing for a long time on the football pitch. I understand he's not the GOAT sportsman, but I think it's hard for a footballer to be with so many factors around.
It's hard to have the 'perfect' footballing career.

I can't compare him to Jordan or the likes. Haven't seen a basketball/tennis game in my life.