Lionel Messi - v7

[Havesaks]

Valverde did put him in better scoring positions but it also harmed the teams synergy, development of the individual player and general play.

 

[Mitchell1978]

Valverde did put him in better scoring positions but it also harmed the teams synergy, development of the individual player and general play.

I don't think thats the case this season, 7 or 8 of the 13 goals in La Liga under Valverde came from out of the box, under Setien he is getting at least as many clear cut chances i feel.
I think its a combination of lesser form, minor injury and now playing in a depleted team.

 

[Gnidrologist]

How in fuck did Valverde put him in better scoring positions? Messi had drop deep in every crucial match, because absolutely nothing came out of likes of Rakitic, Roberto and even Busi, who didn't fit that system. Neither we were good in possession avoiding press and creating spaces for Messi, neither having anyone create clear chances for him. Now we have both. Under Ernie it was almost exclusively his own brilliance or collective brilliance of him and Alba/Suarez to create something out of nothing + free kicks. The IQ of this forum must have really dropped lately.

 

[te amo barca]

Valverde did put him in better scoring positions but it also harmed the teams synergy, development of the individual player and general play.

That's a blatant lie.

 

[KingLeo10]

It was actually 45 in 17-18.

to be fair to BBZ, the numbers he mentioned about Messi's shots this season are correct: 13 goals on about 50 shots for Valverde which is a conversion rate almost on par to his best seasons to 1 goal on about 40 shots under Setien.

The drop off is massive, you have to wonder if the minor injury he is carrying is hampering his shotpower. Or if its just some lesser form as far as finishing/shooting is concerned.
Even Messi has had 'dry' spells before.

Ah, thanks for correcting me on the 45 versus 41. I got 17-18 conflated with 13-14 and 15-16, where I do believe he had 41 goals or thereabouts.

If you ask me, it's probably a combination of minor injury and just a bad streak. He's had those before as you said and he's had explosions as well. In fact, he had one this season right around the time he got the Ballon d'Or.

And to me, the fact that he's getting nearly double the shots per game under Setien as opposed to EV is a very positive sign. CR7 is by no means a very effective scorer. In his RM days, he used to average 5-10 shots per game, which basically guarantees a goal. Part of the reason Messi's been stifled in away CL games lately is because the team's attacking build-up is so bad that Messi has to drop to the midfield. More shots means that: 1) Messi is in more advanced positions on average or/and 2) Messi starts deep but the other forward/midfielders build the attack along with him and he gets a crack at the goal. It's a promising sign for upcoming CL.

 

[KingLeo10]

Valverde did put him in better scoring positions but it also harmed the teams synergy, development of the individual player and general play.

You want to give us an actual analysis to back that up?

And no, shots on goals on average isn't a sufficient analysis. Show us collective team movement, where Messi took his shots etc. under EV and Setien.

 

[DonAK]

Messi is missing a lot of chances he scores 9/10 times on. Could be due to fatigue, the discomfort he's carrying or just a simple slump.

To claim that's because of Setien and that Valverde got the best out of him is pure muppetry.

 

[Ripsta]

He's not scoring because he's playing with two utterly shit forwards alongside him, one of whom is a 17 year old with a frame in danger if blowing away in the wind.

Then you've got two 'supporting' full backs who for the life of them can't attack. Alba has regressed in recent years but still looks lightyears better than that backwards passing twat Firpo.


Board are to blame, bought in shit managers and shit players to replace the world class ones who left.

 

[Giginho75]

The most important thing is that Leo keeps some goals for the most important matches of the season (UCL and Clasico).

In LaLiga, before or later, he will return to score as usual.

 

[JamDav1982]

He's not scoring because he's playing with two utterly shit forwards alongside him, one of whom is a 17 year old with a frame in danger if blowing away in the wind.

Then you've got two 'supporting' full backs who for the life of them can't attack. Alba has regressed in recent years but still looks lightyears better than that backwards passing twat Firpo.


Board are to blame, bought in shit managers and shit players to replace the world class ones who left.

That is not even close to being true.

Messi has missed a ton of chances these past 4/5 games that he would normally score a large chunk of.

He is making up for it in assists that those 'shit forwards' are helping finish.

Messi will start scoring again soon.

 

[Ritchie]

It is weird because under Valverde it felt like he had to score from every chance he had (and he more or less did). Now he's getting more chances every game and can't hit a barndoor.

Feels like his goalscoring days are over but maybe be can get it back.

It's a bit more like Penaldo of recent years. Except he'll have 10 chances every game, stand on the 6 yard box and eventually get a tap in and failing that will fall over in the box and get a Penaldo. Messi, however, is essentially a midfielder these days and has to start and finish a move if he wants a goal. Penaldo just stands in the penalty area for 90 minutes waiting for creative players to service him. That's why Penaldo will piss all over him for goals over the next few years. It's remarkable he kept up with him so long.

 

[KingLeo10]

It is weird because under Valverde it felt like he had to score from every chance he had (and he more or less did). Now he's getting more chances every game and can't hit a barndoor.

Feels like his goalscoring days are over but maybe be can get it back.

It's a bit more like Penaldo of recent years. Except he'll have 10 chances every game, stand on the 6 yard box and eventually get a tap in and failing that will fall over in the box and get a Penaldo. Messi, however, is essentially a midfielder these days and has to start and finish a move if he wants a goal. Penaldo just stands in the penalty area for 90 minutes waiting for creative players to service him. That's why Penaldo will piss all over him for goals over the next few years. It's remarkable he kept up with him so long.

Messi has just about the same number of goals as CR7 at the club level despite playing 2.5 years less/being 2.5 years younger.

More goals than CR7 over the last 10 seasons.

But why am I saying this? Expecting a non-overly pessimistic/borderline suicidal post from you is fool's gold.

 

[khaled_a_d]

First time to not score in 4 consecutive league matches and we wonder if his scoring days are behind him!!!
Messi has set bar too high for himself.

 

[Havesaks]

You want to give us an actual analysis to back that up?

And no, shots on goals on average isn't a sufficient analysis. Show us collective team movement, where Messi took his shots etc. under EV and Setien.

That was my general impression, that's all. But maybe the fact Suarez is out plays a role as well.

Valverdes main focus was to maximize Messis (and Suarez) output, which implicated 1) less defensive duties to both of them 2) less ball possession - > more pressure when opponents had just gained the ball and were reorganising - > punish the messier formation by pressure from midfield and place Messi in room between RW and ST.

A lot increased focus lurking on the opponents mistakes did by default place Messi in good positions / situations to score goals.

 

[Alik]

Even if he doesn't score as much as before, he is assisting at an astonishing rate. Doesn't matter if he is the one banging in the goals or someone else.