Lionel Messi - v7

[Birdy]

Pep has plenty of flaws, one of them as you mentioned is identifying the right type of players for his own system; he's also cost his teams numerous times in the CL for various reasons.
I personally think he's a great coach but extremely overrated.

Overthinking CL games?
Yeah, that might be another flaw, like what we say vs Lyon a month ago.

But Pep's failure in CL is something i think has been overstated and over-hyped by his haters.
For example, the Spurs elimination or the Chelsea one back in 12 with Barca, or the Atletico one in 16 with Bayern, were maybe some of the most unfair results ever, clear-cut cases of 'the whole universe conspiring against him'. Pep haters, blinded by their hate, would lump those eliminations together with ones where the outcome was fair.
But I agree that in the CL it is likely always to be harder because teams park buses and kill mistakes that you don't have time to rectify.
Klopp is certainly a better coach when it comes to knock-out competitions

 

[serghei]

If Pep wins just 1 more CL he'll tie the record of Zidane's 3CL wins. People act as if what he did at Barcelona doesn't exist.

 

[Morten]

If Pep wins just 1 more CL he'll tie the record of Zidane's 3CL wins. People act as if what he did at Barcelona doesn't exist.

Been coaching about 3 times as long though?

 

[serghei]

Been coaching about 3 times as long though?

Yea, and Alex Ferguson has as many CLs as Pep after 20+ years. And Mourinho one of the greatest managers has as many CLs as Pep while starting earlier. And Klopp has less. Ancelotti as many, Capello, Lippi etc have less.

How the hell do we talk about Pep's huge failures, when he has as many CLs as the world's greatest managers.

 

[khaled_a_d]

If Pep wins just 1 more CL he'll tie the record of Zidane's 3CL wins. People act as if what he did at Barcelona doesn't exist.

Up to this day, there are very few peoples who would give Zidane half the credit that Pep got.
Wait, did I say half? I would say 10% might be even generous

 

[KingLeo10]

Yea, and Alex Ferguson has as many CLs as Pep after 20+ years. And Mourinho one of the greatest managers has as many CLs as Pep while starting earlier. And Klopp has less. Ancelotti as many, Capello, Lippi etc have less.

How the hell do we talk about Pep's huge failures, when he has as many CLs as the world's greatest managers.

Ancelotti has won 3 CLs as manager. He was the original record holder before ZZ.

Heynckes is another great with "only" 2. Sacchi has 2.

 

[Morten]

Yea, and Alex Ferguson has as many CLs as Pep after 20+ years. And Mourinho one of the greatest managers has as many CLs as Pep while starting earlier. And Klopp has less. Ancelotti as many, Capello, Lippi etc have less.

How the hell do we talk about Pep's huge failures, when he has as many CLs as the world's greatest managers.

CL is difficult to win, and a lot of things have to come together just right.
If SAF didnt face the best ever Barca-side, he might have had 4 CLs instead of 2, his team peaked at just the wrong point in history.
The line between success and failure in football can be small.

Likewise, Pep did well at Bayern, but he was a bit unlucky coming up against RM 13/14 and Barca 14/15 a year after.

 

[KingLeo10]

CL is difficult to win, and a lot of things have to come together just right.
If SAF didnt face the best ever Barca-side, he might have had 4 CLs instead of 2, his team peaked at just the wrong point in history.
The line between success and failure in football can be small.

Likewise, Pep did well at Bayern, but he was a bit unlucky coming up against RM 13/14 and Barca 14/15 a year after.

I don't think people blame him much for his Bayern stint.

But his City one has been disappointing. You simply can't lose to Monaco, Spurs, and Lyon in 3 of 4 years with the half billion or so he's spent (or more?)

 

[serghei]

Ancelotti has won 3 CLs as manager. He was the original record holder before ZZ.

Heynckes is another great with "only" 2. Sacchi has 2.

You're right. 2003, 2007 and 2014.

Yep, his City stint has been disappointing, but City doesn't have European pedigree, and not much experience at that level. Sterling, Stones, Otamendi, Laporte, Walker etc., their players aren't exactly used to playing at that level. To build that confidence takes a lot of work. You can't buy that sort of stuff. Still, going out to much inferior teams is a poor record. Point is most big managers have moments like that in CL.

With Bayern he made 3/3 semis. Not a bad record, and in 2016 he was flat out unlucky, while in the previous 2 years he faced better teams in Ancelotti's Madrid and MSN Barca.

So, basically, he had a great run with Barca, a good run with Bayern, and a mediocre/poor run with City.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

I don't think people blame him much for his Bayern stint.

But his City one has been disappointing. You simply can't lose to Monaco, Spurs, and Lyon in 3 of 4 years with the half billion or so he's spent (or more?)

City has destroyed the league in the first 2 seasons of Pep and then he lost against Monaco and Spurs in 2 legs matches. He becomes crazy when he gets into knockout matches.

 

[serghei]

City has destroyed the league in the first 2 seasons of Pep and then he lost against Monaco and Spurs in 2 legs matches. He becomes crazy when he gets into knockout matches.

There is more pressure in CL. And their players are blunder masters. Their whole backline looks comical in CL.

 

[Morten]

With Bayern he made 3/3 semis. Not a bad record, and in 2016 he was flat out unlucky, .

Yes, 2016 was when Saul suddenly turned into prime Messi, they didnt really create much else in that game, if i recall.

 

[serghei]

Yes, 2016 was when Saul suddenly turned into prime Messi, they didnt really create much else in that game, if i recall.

Yea, Bayern were the best team that season imo.

 

[Jadentheman]

Pep can still win domestic leagues though. So the only issue is CL

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Yes, 2016 was when Saul suddenly turned into prime Messi, they didnt really create much else in that game, if i recall.

I remember the match, it was fucking insane how he destroyed the whole defence on his own In the second Bayern was much better than Atletico with tons of chances to score but Atletico in personality of Antoine Griezmann was icecold.