La Liga 24/25

[JamDav1982]

I don't think finishing 4th in the league is a better achievement than that, sorry. 4th in La Liga is not a huge feat imo. It's the spot that is up for grabs for several teams, BIlbao included.

Of course it is... and not only that finhsing in top 4th x2 and 5th x2 winning first trophy in 40 years massively outweighs what Biesla did.

Bielsa - Mid table and lost a European final.. which teams from Scotland and likes of Fulham have done.

EV - Four best league finishes in last 20 years, only time playing CL football, won their first trophy in 40 years and another in Supercopa depending on how much want to put on that.

It is not even close.

 

[Maradona37]

It's best of the rest, also because teams like Valencia have dropped down a lot compared to 8-10 years ago. Usually Valencia was the team that made 4th the most I think way back.

True. You're right.

There's a lot of 'good' teams in La Liga, over the last 20 years. Teams like Athletic, Villarreal, Sevilla, Betis, Sociedad. All solid and respectable clubs. Valencia are likely the third biggest club in Spain, and you're right they have been on a massive decline.

 

[serghei]

Its an achievmen


Of course it is... and not only that finhsing in top 4th x2 and 5th x2 winning first trophy in 40 years massively outweighs what Biesla did.

Bielsa - Mid table and lost a European final.. which teams from Scotland and likes of Fulham have done.

EV - Four best league finishes in last 20 years, only time playing CL football, won their first trophy in 40 years and another in Supercopa depending on how much want to put on that.

It is not even close.

Bielsa made two finals in 2012. Both Cup Final lost to Pep Barca and Europa League 2012 Final. That's better than anything EV did with Bilbao for me. You can argue with longevity and we all know Bielsa was a very tumultous manager that burned bright and fast, but their 2012 season is the best I've seen from BIlbao to date personally. Even if in the league they were not consistent, in the cups they were electric that season.

In fact, EV benefitted from Bielsa's work a great deal.

 

[Maradona37]

I think you can argue they peaked as a team for one season or half season under Bielsa. But Jammy is saying they have been consistently good over a prolonged period under Valverde. Maybe not quite as high a peak as under Bielsa, but overall more consistent.

 

[JamDav1982]

Bielsa made two finals in 2012. Both Cup Final lost to Pep Barca and Europa League 2012 Final. That's better than anything EV did with Bilbao for me. You can argue with longevity and we all know Bielsa was a very tumultous manager that burned bright and fast, but their 2012 season is the best I've seen from BIlbao to date personally. Even if in the league they were not consistent, in the cups they were electric that season.

Good for him... winning counts.

Not even close to being better than anything EV did and is doing.

Losing finals is no way better to winning them.

EV lost a final to Barca also.. no one mentions that as winning matters.

 

[serghei]

I think you can argue they peaked as a team for one season or half season under Bielsa. But Jammy is saying they have been consistently good over a prolonged period under Valverde. Maybe not quite as high a peak as under Bielsa, but overall more consistent.

Yes, it's the same old conversation between short but higher peak, and more consistency albeit at a lower level for more seasons. Of course, if EV also brings a high peak in EL, he will close the debate for good.

 

[JamDav1982]

I think you can argue they peaked as a team for one season or half season under Bielsa. But Jammy is saying they have been consistently good over a prolonged period under Valverde. Maybe not quite as high a peak as under Bielsa, but overall more consistent.

Winning first trophy in 40 years and finishing in top 5 is a far better season than mid table and losing x2 finals.

EV lost finals to Barca.. its not being brought up as achieved so much more.

 

[Maradona37]

Yes, it's the same old conversation between short but higher peak, and more consistency albeit at a lower level for more seasons.

Yer, like the league champion is consistent whereas the CL winner does it in big games over a shorter period. It isn't always like that, but it can be a rough rule to follow.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yes, it's the same old conversation between short but higher peak, and more consistency albeit at a lower level for more seasons.

There is not one Bilbao fan who thinks mid table and losing finals is a 'peak' to winning first trophy in 40 years and finishing 5th.

EV teams are at higher level.. they win and finish higher in league.

 

[Maradona37]

Winning first trophy in 40 years and finishing in top 5 is a far better season than mid table and losing x2 finals.

EV lost finals to Barca.. its not being brought up as achieved so much more.

Fair enough. I tend to agree more with you in this debate anyway.

 

[serghei]

Winning first trophy in 40 years and finishing in top 5 is a far better season than mid table and losing x2 finals.

EV lost finals to Barca.. its not being brought up as achieved so much more.

Yeah, except he won it on pens vs Mallorca. I think there's an immense difference from Mallorca to Pep Barca with Messi . Completely conjunctural.

 

[Maradona37]

There is not one Bilbao fan who thinks mid table and losing finals is a 'peak' to winning first trophy in 40 years and finishing 5th.

Think what he was saying (and what I said) is their peak came in Europa League that season. Sure though they had to sacrifice the league to get it done. Which is partly why I agree with you here in general.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yeah, except he won it on pens vs Mallorca. I think there's an immense difference from Mallorca to Pep Barca with Messi . Completely conjuctural.

Yes he won it... thats what matters.

His peak at Bilbao been much higher than Bielsas mid table and losing finals in way Scottish teams have.

 

[serghei]

Yes he won it... thats what matters.

Be careful there. You don't want to propose this type of argument.

Yes, I will accept your argument and change my position to Bielsa was better in Europe for Bilbao while EV was better domestically.

 

[JamDav1982]

Be careful there. You don't want to propose this type of argument.

Yes, I would accept your argument and change it to Bielsa was better in Europe for Bilbao while EV was better domestically.

Nah argument makes perfect sense.

What EV has done far outweighs Bielsa in peak and season on season performances.

Bielsa lost in Europe.. plenty average teams have.

Winning matters... Bielsa couldnt and league positions were poor.

EV has lost Cup finals to Barca... has lost European finals with Espanyol.. it doesnt get used for him as will with Bielsa as has far better peaks to point to.