Ivan Rakitić

[Judoman]

As a regular on this forum, I always see that:

-underoath seems to reply to you specifically, agreeing with your posts 5-10 mins after you post something, meaning they're online when you're online (weird, huh).
-underoath "fanboys" the same players you do, and shits on the same players too.
-underoath's old account was called BiraBoyZ.

All of these things may be a coincidence, but statistically speaking, I doubt it. It's not that far fetched to suspect you 2 might be the same person, typing in a different style. Just an observation I found interesting.

 

[BBZ8800]

1. Rakitic is the most advanced midfielder of them all.
2. His goals and assists were not so important.

John, yesterday, for example:
Puig was the most advanced midfielder.
Yet, he didn't try any shots, for example.

During Busi-Raki-Iniesta, Iniesta was the most advanced midfielder.
Yet, look at this:
2015:
Raki 7 goals, Iniesta 0
Raki 8 assists, Iniesta 6
2016:
Raki 9 goals, Iniesta 1
Raki 4 assists, Iniesta 2 assists
2017:
Raki 8 goals, Iniesta 1
Raki 5 assists, Iniesta 4 assists
2018:
Raki 2 goals, Iniesta 1 goal
Raki 5 assists, Iniesta 4 assists

While those 2 played together:
Raki 26 goals, Iniesta 3 goals
Raki 22 assists, Iniesta 16 assists

So, Iniesta was the most advanced (remember how Raki was babysitting for Messi and Alves during Lucho's 3 years).
Yet, he has 26:3 goals compared to Iniesta. And more assists.

So, maybe the answer is not: Raki plays more advanced.
But: Raki "has that skill for the attacking 3rd". He plays a lot of backpasses, but in moments when he has space, he is quite good in shooting, goals, assisting and creation.

How does this make him better than the others against "Mickey Mouse La Liga teams"? He isn't needed for those games. As yourself said in the past:

For me, La Liga is not won against RM and AM.
La Liga is won in matches against smaller teams.
And the champion will be a team who managed to play the lowest number of 0:0 and 1:1 matches against Getafe and Levante.
So, what is a key for La liga against smaller teams?
= always try to score one goal more than your opponent.

From what I understand, you seem to consider Arthur and Alena players that would "strengthen technique and attacking parts of midfield" instead of building a "stonewall defense".
So, is it attacking that Rakitic is better than Arthur or Defending?

You are a new user, I guess.
We talked about Raki vs Arthur in depth for Months.
But since I like your way of thinking and analyzing for now, I will repeat one more time for you.

This is how I see Raki vs Arthur:
1. playmaking (Xav's way):
Arthur 10/10
Raki 5/10
2. technique, first touch, pleasing for the eye:
Arthur 9/10
Raki 5/10
3. off the ball movement:
Arthur 10/10
Raki 5/10
4. press resistance:
Arthur 10/10
Raki 2/10

But here comes the problem:
Defending:
Raki 8/10
Arthur 3/10
Forward passes, assists:
Raki 7/10
Arthur 2/10
Shooting, scoring:
Raki 7/10
Arthur 1/10

Look at numbers from defending, Arthur is horrible on stats:
Interceptions:
Raki 1,5 per match
Arthur 0,3 (and 0,2 in a CL)

Tackles:
Raki 0,9
Arthur 0,6

Clearances:
Raki 0,8
Arthur 0,3

Blocks:
Raki 0,2
Arthur 0,0

Total rating per season:
Rakitic 7,06 whoscored
Arthur 6,49

Now, if you simplify midfielder to 3 parts of his game:
1. a pure, classical midfield game:
Arthur 8/10
Raki 5/10
2. defending
Raki 8/10
Arthur 3/10
3. attacking part
Raki 7/10
Arthur 2/10

The truth is that Arthur is better than Raki in a PURE midfielder's area.
But he sucks in defending and attacking.

Then, someone will reply: but the main duty of a midfielder is to pass the ball (classical midfielder's skills).
Well, not entirely true.
This is Barca.
Remember how Semedo is a better defender than Roberto.
And since they are RBs, a simple logic would imply that Semedo is a better pick, right?
But now, when you add a fact that we are playing 80% matches against crappy teams where our RB is supposed to be a creator or a false midfielder and not a defender, then we can understand WHY Roberto has 7-10 assists per season and Semedo 0.
And why is Semedo lost, disconnected and braindead in attack.

Now, could you say that Semedo is a better pick against Getafe at 0:0 than Roberto?
I can't.

Or a GK.
Someone could say: all a GK need is: goalkeeping.
True.
But then, sine we are Barca, we are looking only for Gks with insane passing ability.

So, you see, imo, even though Arthur is better than Raki in a pure, core Barca's DNA game in terms of press resistance, off the ball movement, first touch, technique and possession.
But overall, Raki is still a superior player for me (for La Liga) due to Arthur's horrible attacking game and quite bad defending.

And then again, when you look at a wider picture:
Busi is a pivot and sucks in the attacking third.
Frenkie is a pivot and sucks in the attacking third.
Then which one is a better 3rd part of that midfield:
1) Arthur, another pivot and another guy who sucks in the attacking third
2) or let's say: Raki, or even Coutinho

Also, I was talking a lot of times about natural skills.
Imo, Arthur's natural instincts in attack are horrible.
His natural instinct is to shield the ball and not to lose it.
He is not even looking at what is happening in attack.

On the other hand, Raki's natural instincts are: try to dribble, assist or shoot.
He started his career as a CF and CAM at Basel, Schalke and even Sevilla.
So, again, I don't believe that Arthur will ever improve his attacking game THAT much.

Now, let's go back to that part where we play against weak teams for 80% of matches.
Now again, would you field: Busi-Arthur-Frenkie at 0:0 in the 70th minute at home vs Getafe?
Or, Raki, or even Frenkie-Raki-Coutinho trio, for example?

Whoscored lists passing, as Rakitic's biggest asset. He is also classified as having no significant weaknesses. Exactly the same thing with Busquets.
Does this seem accurate? Why would you trust this source for anything?

Look, I am from Croatia.
I am watching Raki's NT matches since 2008'.
His passing is very, very good. Except for Barca's Xavi-Iniesta press resistance standards.

Someone will say that I used to say that Raki is a workhorse and now I changed to: a goalscoring CM.
Well, he is both.
If we played with Iniesta and Busi, we needed more physique and defending.
Raki is a good allround guy for that trio.
If you have Iniesta and Rafinha as CMs, Raki is a good pivot too add some defending.
But also, if you have two pivots in Frenkie and Busi, then Raki is also a good guy for shooting and assisting.
Add to that his experience, World cup final.
And a fact that shooting, scoring and assisting (when he has time and space) is in his blood since he started his career as a CAM/CF at Basel and Schalke.
Imo, he is the best allrounder in our team. This is why all coaches love him and he is a starter under all coaches. (Emery, Lucho, EV, all Croatian NT coaches)

Again, for guys who think that Raki's goals and assists are a fluke, a few more videos from his early days (and then try to find a video where Arthur has EVER done anything in the attacking 3rd):
Schalke CAM/CF:

Sevilla CAM:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYP0qb1LngI

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

John, yesterday, for example:
Puig was the most advanced midfielder.
Yet, he didn't try any shots, for example.

During Busi-Raki-Iniesta, Iniesta was the most advanced midfielder.
Yet, look at this:
2015:
Raki 7 goals, Iniesta 0
Raki 8 assists, Iniesta 6
2016:
Raki 9 goals, Iniesta 1
Raki 4 assists, Iniesta 2 assists
2017:
Raki 8 goals, Iniesta 1
Raki 5 assists, Iniesta 4 assists
2018:
Raki 2 goals, Iniesta 1 goal
Raki 5 assists, Iniesta 4 assists

While those 2 played together:
Raki 26 goals, Iniesta 3 goals
Raki 22 assists, Iniesta 16 assists

So, Iniesta was the most advanced (remember how Raki was babysitting for Messi and Alves during Lucho's 3 years).
Yet, he has 26:3 goals compared to Iniesta. And more assists.

So, maybe the answer is not: Raki plays more advanced.
But: Raki "has that skill for the attacking 3rd". He plays a lot of backpasses, but in moments when he has space, he is quite good in shooting, goals, assisting and creation.



For me, La Liga is not won against RM and AM.
La Liga is won in matches against smaller teams.
And the champion will be a team who managed to play the lowest number of 0:0 and 1:1 matches against Getafe and Levante.
So, what is a key for La liga against smaller teams?
= always try to score one goal more than your opponent.



You are a new user, I guess.
We talked about Raki vs Arthur in depth for Months.
But since I like your way of thinking and analyzing for now, I will repeat one more time for you.

This is how I see Raki vs Arthur:
1. playmaking (Xav's way):
Arthur 10/10
Raki 5/10
2. technique, first touch, pleasing for the eye:
Arthur 9/10
Raki 5/10
3. off the ball movement:
Arthur 10/10
Raki 5/10
4. press resistance:
Arthur 10/10
Raki 2/10

But here comes the problem:
Defending:
Raki 8/10
Arthur 3/10
Forward passes, assists:
Raki 7/10
Arthur 2/10
Shooting, scoring:
Raki 7/10
Arthur 1/10

Look at numbers from defending, Arthur is horrible on stats:
Interceptions:
Raki 1,5 per match
Arthur 0,3 (and 0,2 in a CL)

Tackles:
Raki 0,9
Arthur 0,6

Clearances:
Raki 0,8
Arthur 0,3

Blocks:
Raki 0,2
Arthur 0,0

Total rating per season:
Rakitic 7,06 whoscored
Arthur 6,49

Now, if you simplify midfielder to 3 parts of his game:
1. a pure, classical midfield game:
Arthur 8/10
Raki 5/10
2. defending
Raki 8/10
Arthur 3/10
3. attacking part
Raki 7/10
Arthur 2/10

The truth is that Arthur is better than Raki in a PURE midfielder's area.
But he sucks in defending and attacking.

Then, someone will reply: but the main duty of a midfielder is to pass the ball (classical midfielder's skills).
Well, not entirely true.
This is Barca.
Remember how Semedo is a better defender than Roberto.
And since they are RBs, a simple logic would imply that Semedo is a better pick, right?
But now, when you add a fact that we are playing 80% matches against crappy teams where our RB is supposed to be a creator or a false midfielder and not a defender, then we can understand WHY Roberto has 7-10 assists per season and Semedo 0.
And why is Semedo lost, disconnected and braindead in attack.

Now, could you say that Semedo is a better pick against Getafe at 0:0 than Roberto?
I can't.

Or a GK.
Someone could say: all a GK need is: goalkeeping.
True.
But then, sine we are Barca, we are looking only for Gks with insane passing ability.

So, you see, imo, even though Arthur is better than Raki in a pure, core Barca's DNA game in terms of press resistance, off the ball movement, first touch, technique and possession.
But overall, Raki is still a superior player for me (for La Liga) due to Arthur's horrible attacking game and quite bad defending.

And then again, when you look at a wider picture:
Busi is a pivot and sucks in the attacking third.
Frenkie is a pivot and sucks in the attacking third.
Then which one is a better 3rd part of that midfield:
1) Arthur, another pivot and another guy who sucks in the attacking third
2) or let's say: Raki, or even Coutinho

Also, I was talking a lot of times about natural skills.
Imo, Arthur's natural instincts in attack are horrible.
His natural instinct is to shield the ball and not to lose it.
He is not even looking at what is happening in attack.

On the other hand, Raki's natural instincts are: try to dribble, assist or shoot.
He started his career as a CF and CAM at Basel, Schalke and even Sevilla.
So, again, I don't believe that Arthur will ever improve his attacking game THAT much.

Now, let's go back to that part where we play against weak teams for 80% of matches.
Now again, would you field: Busi-Arthur-Frenkie at 0:0 in the 70th minute at home vs Getafe?
Or, Raki, or even Frenkie-Raki-Coutinho trio, for example?





Look, I am from Croatia.
I am watching Raki's NT matches since 2008'.
His passing is very, very good. Except for Barca's Xavi-Iniesta press resistance standards.

Someone will say that I used to say that Raki is a workhorse and now I changed to: a goalscoring CM.
Well, he is both.
If we played with Iniesta and Busi, we needed more physique and defending.
Raki is a good allround guy for that trio.
If you have Iniesta and Rafinha as CMs, Raki is a good pivot too add some defending.
But also, if you have two pivots in Frenkie and Busi, then Raki is also a good guy for shooting and assisting.
Add to that his experience, World cup final.
And a fact that shooting, scoring and assisting (when he has time and space) is in his blood since he started his career as a CAM/CF at Basel and Schalke.
Imo, he is the best allrounder in our team. This is why all coaches love him and he is a starter under all coaches. (Emery, Lucho, EV, all Croatian NT coaches)

Again, for guys who think that Raki's goals and assists are a fluke, a few more videos from his early days (and then try to find a video where Arthur has EVER done anything in the attacking 3rd):
Schalke CAM/CF:

Sevilla CAM:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYP0qb1LngI

So you would rather play Rakitic vs Liverpool than Arthur? Because Rakitic is better defensively, right? I wouldn't. Arthur can give us control vs good teams, meaning we won't shit our pants every time they press us. Rakitic with Busi is one of the reasons why we struggle vs big good teams. They are slow to defend, if opponent gets counter attack and especially Rakitic is awful when pressed on.

Rakitic is great vs team's who offer no pressure and back down to their own goal because he can score screamers but vs any good team he can be liability. Or vs team's who can press our players, like Betis.

Put Arthur to CL games and I think our team improves. Use Raki vs parking busses and we do better.

 

[Raketa10]

After months of reading this forum IMHO problem is not Raki but the way Valverde utilizes him. If he was rotating midfielders in the way he should probably no one would complain about Raki. Problem is that this idiot uses Raki-Busi combo in 90% of games and than people go nuts because two 32y old guys look like mummies after 60+ games in one season.

I don't blame Raki or Busi at all and none of you should. Our problem lies with Vlaverde. This idiot will probably bench De Jong and people will than hate Rakitic while all the hate should go towards our moronic manager.

Having Rakitic in the squad as an option is an asset but having Rakitic as the most utilized player in the squad is a problem and that's the entire truth.

 

[BBZ8800]

So you would rather play Rakitic vs Liverpool than Arthur? Because Rakitic is better defensively, right? I wouldn't. Arthur can give us control vs good teams, meaning we won't shit our pants every time they press us. Rakitic with Busi is one of the reasons why we struggle vs big good teams. They are slow to defend, if opponent gets counter attack and especially Rakitic is awful when pressed on.

Rakitic is great vs team's who offer no pressure and back down to their own goal because he can score screamers but vs any good team he can be liability. Or vs team's who can press our players, like Betis.

Put Arthur to CL games and I think our team improves. Use Raki vs parking busses and we do better.

I have just said around 10 times on the last few pages:

1. Raki is a better player against Mickey Mouse teams
2. Arthur could be better against Liverpool due to his press resistance, even though we don't know yet how good will he defend once when we lose the ball.
But let's even say that Arthur is way better for CL KO matches.

Now, in La liga, 30+ matches out of 38 are Mickey Mouse matches.
CL group stage matches are semi-friendly low pressure easy matches.
CDR, all 10+ matches are monkey easy level.

So, basically, our first BIG Match in which Raki can screw us will be at the end of a February.
That is roughly 190-200 days from now.
Till then, we will play around 25 easier La Liga matches, 10 monkey easy CDR matches and 6 friendly CL group stage matches.
That is around 40 matches of a lower intensity till then.

So, one more time:
1. if Arthur is better against Liverpool (but even here you have a big IF since no one knows how will he defend and his defending stats are not good till now)
2. if Raki is better against Getafe, Alaves and Granada
= whom will you play in the first 40 matches?
1) a guy who is good against Liverpool and useless against parked buses?
2) a guy who is ok against parked buses and useless against Liverpool?

Wait for a new season and then follow Arthur against teams who press us and against teams who sit deep.

 

[JohnN]

During Busi-Raki-Iniesta, Iniesta was the most advanced midfielder.
Yet, look at this:
2015:
Raki 7 goals, Iniesta 0
Raki 8 assists, Iniesta 6
2016:
Raki 9 goals, Iniesta 1
Raki 4 assists, Iniesta 2 assists
2017:
Raki 8 goals, Iniesta 1
Raki 5 assists, Iniesta 4 assists
2018:
Raki 2 goals, Iniesta 1 goal
Raki 5 assists, Iniesta 4 assists

While those 2 played together:
Raki 26 goals, Iniesta 3 goals
Raki 22 assists, Iniesta 16 assists

So, Iniesta was the most advanced (remember how Raki was babysitting for Messi and Alves during Lucho's 3 years).
Yet, he has 26:3 goals compared to Iniesta. And more assists.

So, maybe the answer is not: Raki plays more advanced.
But: Raki "has that skill for the attacking 3rd". He plays a lot of backpasses, but in moments when he has space, he is quite good in shooting, goals, assisting and creation.

It's true that he is more eficient as scoring and even assisting than iniesta was. But the influence iniesta had in actualy creating was far greater. (That's what we expected from coutinho as well as his long shots)

This is how I see Raki vs Arthur:
1. playmaking (Xav's way):
Arthur 10/10
Raki 5/10
2. technique, first touch, pleasing for the eye:
Arthur 9/10
Raki 5/10
3. off the ball movement:
Arthur 10/10
Raki 5/10
4. press resistance:
Arthur 10/10
Raki 2/10

But here comes the problem:
Defending:
Raki 8/10
Arthur 3/10
Forward passes, assists:
Raki 7/10
Arthur 2/10
Shooting, scoring:
Raki 7/10
Arthur 1/10

I would agree with most of these. Personaly i would have Arthur's shooting a litle bit higher than that. He never gets in shooting postitions but that's another topic.

Now, if you simplify midfielder to 3 parts of his game:
1. a pure, classical midfield game:
Arthur 8/10
Raki 5/10
2. defending
Raki 8/10
Arthur 3/10
3. attacking part
Raki 7/10
Arthur 2/10

The truth is that Arthur is better than Raki in a PURE midfielder's area.
But he sucks in defending and attacking.

3. attacking part
Raki 7/10
Arthur 2/10

This is the one i see differently. Attacking (for a midfielder) is not only shooting and assisting.
It's creation, flow, movement, passing, releaving preassure, finding the correct pass to the players who are available and able to create a final pass.

I would rate Arthur higher than rakitic on the attacking part using this viewpoint.

Now, could you say that Semedo is a better pick against Getafe at 0:0 than Roberto?
I can't.

For me it's a bad choice either way. If I had to play one of those two, I'd pick Roberto. Maybe i'd prefer to play with a back 3 instead .

So, again, I don't believe that Arthur will ever improve his attacking game THAT much.

I don't think so either. My thinking is that he doesn't need to. Having a more threatening midfielder beside him, while he provides the control needed should be enough.

Now, let's go back to that part where we play against weak teams for 80% of matches.
Now again, would you field: Busi-Arthur-Frenkie at 0:0 in the 70th minute at home vs Getafe?
Or, Raki, or even Frenkie-Raki-Coutinho trio, for example?

I would not use Busi-Arthur-Frenkie for that situation.

Imo, he is the best allrounder in our team. This is why all coaches love him and he is a starter under all coaches. (Emery, Lucho, EV, all Croatian NT coaches)

With the general definition of a classic midfielder you could say that.
But, someone could argue two points on this:
1. He is a Jack of all trades, but master of none. All our other CMs are masters at something. Combine them efficiently and it will work better.
2. He is not the player shown in the video anymore. He cannot do the dribble (just before the 1 minute mark in the video posted) at this age, as well as many other things.

My final thoughts.
1. If the team can afford it financially, the should keep all midfielders and try to find the system that utilizes their attributes best. Many options available should not be a bad thing.
2. Valverde will not do this. He will only play, the highest paid players all the time, because if you compare salaries with minutes played, that is exactly what he did last season.

 

[BBZ8800]

1. If the team can afford it financially, the should keep all midfielders and try to find the system that utilizes their attributes best. Many options available should not be a bad thing.

True again, but, if we would simplify and divide midfielder's strengths into 3 areas, it would look like this imo:
1. Raki:
Defending: good
Midfield play and build up: average
Attacking 3rd: good

2. Busi:
Defending: good
Midfield play and build up: good
Attacking 3rd: bad

3. Arthur:
Defending: bad
Midfield play and build up: good
Attacking 3rd: bad

4. Vidal:
Defending: good
Midfield play and build up: average
Attacking 3rd: good but weird for our style

5. Cou:
Defending: bad
Midfield play and build up: average
Attacking 3rd: good

6. Roberto:
Defending: good
Midfield play and build up: average
Attacking 3rd: good

7. Frenkie:
Defending: good
Midfield play and build up: good
Attacking 3rd: bad

Now, you say that we should pair different strengths, which is true.
But look at which individual strengths is Busi-Frenkie-Arthur midfield bringing to a table:
Busi/Frenkie/Arthur
Defense: good, good, bad
Midfield play and build up: good, good, good
Attacking 3rd: bad, bad, bad

And now, since against Mickey Mouse teams, our most needed traits are probably:
1st place: midfield play
followed closely by: 2nd place: attacking 3rd
3rd place: defending

That midfield has 3 points in build up, 0 points in attack, 2 points in defending.
If you remove Arthur and put Coutinho or Raki:
= you will have equal midfield or only slightly worse, yet way better attacking 3rd.

So, it is about balance of the whole midfield.
And imo, Busi-Frenkie-Arthur aren't balanced at all for weaker teams.

Also, our fans have erased that from memory, but Arthur dropped to a 5th place in a pecking order under EV at the end of a season:
1. Busi
2. Raki
3. Vidal
4. Alena
5. Arthur

Now add Frenkie, probably at a place No1, No2 or No3.
That means that Arthur is 6th placed now, or 5th placed if we remove Alena.

Busi, Raki, Vidal all played more than Arthur.
And now we have Frenkie.
And yet, our fans somehow deleted a pecking order due to Anfield's match and decided that No1 and No2 are Frenkie and Arthur.

 

[serghei]

BBZ at it again it seems. Somehow he can't admit the fact that Busi and Rakitic are one of the main reasons why we have been an embarrassment in Europe lately. Our record with them running the midfield in CL is terrible.

It is a proven recipe for disaster. When you shit your pants in front of Milner and Henderson it's clear you should make room for the next generation.

 

[Messigician]

📰 [SPORT] | The future does not divert Rakitic's attention

🔶 The Croatian has been one of the highlights of the Azulgrana's preseason

🔷 Two goals, hard work and, above all, deaf ears to all the noise that is generated about a possible transfer

 

[Alik]

Rakitic is good, average, good.

Not bad

 

[xXKonan]

Stats could be used for good things but also they don't paint the full picture.

I've said it before but there's a gulf between Stats Rakitic and what you actually see on the field. Stats Rakitic looks like the Complete Midfield General who runs the show and puts up monster defensive performances every game.

On Pitch Rakitic on the other hand, plays like someone who struggles to move around the pitch now and can barely stand someone pressing him within 10 yards. It's actually amazing how big the gulf between Stats Rakitic and on Pitch Rakitic really is.

 

[Andresito]

You know it's time to log off when people try to prove points with Iniesta's lack of goals and assists.

 

[underoath]

Yup back passing merchant 😂

 

[Vilarrubi]

You know it's time to log off when people try to prove points with Iniesta's lack of goals and assists.

exactly... that must mean Yaya Toure>everyone else with his 20 goals and 9 assists in a season.

 

[underoath]

I’m pretty sure that everyone can see that FDJ is a very special player .

I can’t believe we’ve managed to get him .
I’m even happier than when we got Neymar ..

Nobody denying he's something special, but you know what i meant and how this forum narrative works.