Richard.H
Senior Member
Ya the attacks on BBZ need to stop. Last I checked this is a forum and people are entitled to their own opinion.
Ya the attacks on BBZ need to stop. Last I checked this is a forum and people are entitled to their own opinion.
Cule4life
The Culest
I generally tolerate his wankfests but he went too far saying we've always been bottlers and these defeats are nothing new. That's way over the line. He has gone completely insane in defending his sugar daddy.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
I am not defending EV anymore.
I would sack him.
BUt I have fears that not too much will change (in a CL) with a new coach.
We'll win La Liga either way. I mean, we won La Liga with Paulinho-Rakitic. We are too strong for La Liga with Messi.
So, whoever comes, he will probably win La Liga.
That doesn't mean that a coach is good or bad, since with Messi, almost any coach will win La liga.
Regarding our last 30 years of history, yes, after tonight I don't know what should we do anymore:
1. if we play too attacking we get killed on counters. And lose.
2. if we play too light players, we get bullied in the middle. And lose.
3. if we play with a team like today, we can't create anything. And lose.
Whatever we try, we lose.
I think that no matter what we do (regardless of a coach, since the same happened under Tito, Tata, Lucho, EV) we will lose in a crazy/naive way.
Some guys asked why I posted Cruijff's videos? To show that even then, with a way better coach, we had the same mental problems as a team.
During majority of our history, we were always hailed as a team with the best players, with the most beautiful play, but on way too many occasions, we always bottle in the same fashion in a CL, like tonight.
With Cruijff, Van Gaal, Sera Ferrer, Rexach, Antic, even Rijkaard, Tito, Tata, Lucho, EV.
Something isn't right with our team mentally in KO matches for the last 30 years.
In the last 30 years, we are by far the best team in La Liga. So, La Liga and a league competition suits us.
But we are just not a good team for knockout matches.
Messi saved our asses a few times and brought a few CLs, but other than that, our last 30 years is more or less the same old story all the time.
And again: I will not defend EV anymore.
I liked him while the results were good, but these 2 CL defeats were bad.
Also, I am ok now with selling Raki, Vidal and a lot of older guys.
But still, I don't think that technique alone in upcoming years will be enough for CLs.
In the future we will need to do something about that mental strength, complacency, hunger in a CL.
For La Liga, we are more than fine.
After this, I would buy De Ligt.
Maybe his mental strength will be a step No1 in getting better results in the future.
If he is as mentally strong as people claim.
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Atletico the powerful warrior workhorses lost exactly the same way as us today weeks ago. What did Valgreen learn? Nada
We lost exactly the same way as us one year ago. What did Valmiera learn? Zip
If the manager can't impart a winning mentality in a team, who can?
The core of the team is mentally fragile. But who plays them match after match, not even subbing them, while the young players are subbed robotically at the same time?
Which team apart from Chelsea has won the CL in the recent past by parking the bus?
How many CLs have we won in our history playing like cowards?
Give this team to Klopp and the Liverpool team to Valverde. Would you bet your house Ernie's team would win?
You really are a huge egomaniac. Rather than admitting you were wrong about Valgreen and your beloved workhorses, you have decided to dig in and go full retard.
Never go full retard
vidal can walk away from the game with his head held high imo, and he absolutely should stay as a good player to have in the squad. he is that "workhorse" player for use in certain scenarios, our new Keita.
I have defended rakitic in the past and I have bashed him in the past, my stance on him is sell him was to sell only if the offer is reasonable but now I'm inclined to say he should be offloaded even if the offer is less than ideal, just for the purposes of shaking up the team.
I have defended rakitic in the past and I have bashed him in the past, my stance on him is sell him was to sell only if the offer is reasonable but now I'm inclined to say he should be offloaded even if the offer is less than ideal, just for the purposes of shaking up the team.
raedkuwait
Senior Member
Watch him play the same line up for the copa, am not sure the team will celebrate
Winning the copa now
Winning the copa now
Cule4life
The Culest
Literally nobody has said that they only want short skillful players in the team. Don't know why you keep peddling that lie. To be a wind up merchant? We all want a good mixture of young/experienced/technical/workhorse/leaders. The only one with extreme opinions here is you who spares no opportunity no dunk on players that don't fit his ideal profile of a footballer, but then disappears when they perform well. At the same time cutting his ideal players a ton of slack and making excuses for them.
Yes leadership and mentality are also important. But who's the most important person to impart that into the team? The manager. And that's why the first thing we need to win the CL again is an experienced, ballsy manager whose vision is aligned with Barca albeit with a few tweaks (like your beloved workhorses)
Take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror mate and think how retarded have you been today.
jairzinho
Senior Member
Even if we win the copa he should be sacked. Time to part with him and his team.
God Serena
New member
So much is going on in my head that I don't even know what to think. The fact that certain members of the Valverde cult can look at this meltdown and somehow see joy is beyond me, but I suppose when you've just been proven to be a fool the only ground you have to stand on is the moral ground, even if you don't have any legs.
I just don't understand why it has to be Valverde. I just... don't understand. If he brought us results it'd be one thing, but can anyone name even a single trophy or result we weren't able to get before Valverde, that we are getting now? How come the only top tier manager at other clubs who has Barca in his resume is Pep? How come the managers we sign are always little men, out of their depth, who overachieve compared to anything in their career on the backs of our golden generation, and how are they able to somehow receive praise for this?
There are three things I'd like to see from Barca. They are results, style of play, and youth development. With Valverde, our results are the standard Liga/Copa double that we are the favorites for every year, followed by utter humiliation in the CL. Some may say winning La Liga and the Copa is very impressive, but as I mentioned earlier, just about any La Liga manager could do the same. So then we go to the UCL. Losing is fine. I am totally okay with losing, we can't win them all. But losing while failing to be competitive is another thing entirely. Losing while failing to be competitive for two years running is not twice as bad, it's 10 times as bad.
So, okay, we're not seeing any results. But maybe, if the games were at least entertaining, I could still be satiated... except they're not. I routinely fall asleep during our games, now. Something that never used to happen, even when we had the random games that kicked off at 4am my time (Too late a time to stay up for, too early to wake up for, but I still did it anyways). We sit back and defend single goal leads. We play with a philosophy of passing sideways and backwards (This is why I don't blame the likes of Rakitic, Arthur, Alena, etc. for having a lot of non forward passes) to avoid giving away the ball... even though we do that a lot anyways. Our subs are identical in every game, no matter the situation. I once predicted our subs in a match thread on twitter and people expressed shock when I was right and 7 months later the exact same subs were still being made.
So okay, we don't have any really good results, and we don't have a very good style of play, but surely, surely we're at least focusing on developing players for the future, so we don't have an entire team of old men who are either too tired or too unbothered to fight for the team, right? Wrong. Last season Valverde went into dead rubbers without even touching the B team. Why were guys like Digne, Gomes, Denis, guys who had no future here, playing over kids who might, one day? And into his second season, he similarly ignored the B team. Wague could quite possibly be better than Semedo and Roberto right now if he had been given the chance to build any amount of experience at all. Yet he only gets scraps when the season is over. Alena is lucky to get a game in when he could easily fill the role Rakitic fills. Arthur sat on the bench while we went on a losing streak in October. Riqui didn't get his Liga debut until after the league was over. Cucu was loaned when we don't even have a backup for Alba at all (???). Lenglet rode the bench until Umtiti got injured. Todibo only plays meaningless games despite there being plenty of opportunity for him. And we use Boateng as a striker when we have an entire B team full of attackers who may not be better, but could potentially prove to be a much bigger help to the club long term than an over the hill midfielder brought in on loan, were they to actually perform decently.
So, Valverde brings us exactly none of results, style of play, or youth development. I've seen from numerous people that there's nobody else we can hire if we do sack Valverde, but honestly, what he brings us right now is so meaningless that... anyone will do. If the next person also brings us none of the results, a terrible style of play, and no youth development, then at least we can say we tried.
Pep brought us all 3. That is why he is so loved (Much to the chagrin of our infamous cult here). Tito brought us style of play and results. Tata brought us none of the three and left after one season. Lucho brought us all 3 in one season, then brought us 1 (style of play) in the following 2 seasons and left. Valverde has brought us... none.
Maybe I am entitled, I don't know. I wasn't a fan in the 90's. I wasn't even a fan before Ronaldinho. I haven't seen how low this club can get, and I understand that. But I still desperately want to find a way to find some joy in watching this team, and right now, I just don't see it. I'm not even mad anymore, or even sad. I just feel defeated and hopeless. I don't want Valverde to kill himself or anything like that, I just want my club back.
I just don't understand why it has to be Valverde. I just... don't understand. If he brought us results it'd be one thing, but can anyone name even a single trophy or result we weren't able to get before Valverde, that we are getting now? How come the only top tier manager at other clubs who has Barca in his resume is Pep? How come the managers we sign are always little men, out of their depth, who overachieve compared to anything in their career on the backs of our golden generation, and how are they able to somehow receive praise for this?
There are three things I'd like to see from Barca. They are results, style of play, and youth development. With Valverde, our results are the standard Liga/Copa double that we are the favorites for every year, followed by utter humiliation in the CL. Some may say winning La Liga and the Copa is very impressive, but as I mentioned earlier, just about any La Liga manager could do the same. So then we go to the UCL. Losing is fine. I am totally okay with losing, we can't win them all. But losing while failing to be competitive is another thing entirely. Losing while failing to be competitive for two years running is not twice as bad, it's 10 times as bad.
So, okay, we're not seeing any results. But maybe, if the games were at least entertaining, I could still be satiated... except they're not. I routinely fall asleep during our games, now. Something that never used to happen, even when we had the random games that kicked off at 4am my time (Too late a time to stay up for, too early to wake up for, but I still did it anyways). We sit back and defend single goal leads. We play with a philosophy of passing sideways and backwards (This is why I don't blame the likes of Rakitic, Arthur, Alena, etc. for having a lot of non forward passes) to avoid giving away the ball... even though we do that a lot anyways. Our subs are identical in every game, no matter the situation. I once predicted our subs in a match thread on twitter and people expressed shock when I was right and 7 months later the exact same subs were still being made.
So okay, we don't have any really good results, and we don't have a very good style of play, but surely, surely we're at least focusing on developing players for the future, so we don't have an entire team of old men who are either too tired or too unbothered to fight for the team, right? Wrong. Last season Valverde went into dead rubbers without even touching the B team. Why were guys like Digne, Gomes, Denis, guys who had no future here, playing over kids who might, one day? And into his second season, he similarly ignored the B team. Wague could quite possibly be better than Semedo and Roberto right now if he had been given the chance to build any amount of experience at all. Yet he only gets scraps when the season is over. Alena is lucky to get a game in when he could easily fill the role Rakitic fills. Arthur sat on the bench while we went on a losing streak in October. Riqui didn't get his Liga debut until after the league was over. Cucu was loaned when we don't even have a backup for Alba at all (???). Lenglet rode the bench until Umtiti got injured. Todibo only plays meaningless games despite there being plenty of opportunity for him. And we use Boateng as a striker when we have an entire B team full of attackers who may not be better, but could potentially prove to be a much bigger help to the club long term than an over the hill midfielder brought in on loan, were they to actually perform decently.
So, Valverde brings us exactly none of results, style of play, or youth development. I've seen from numerous people that there's nobody else we can hire if we do sack Valverde, but honestly, what he brings us right now is so meaningless that... anyone will do. If the next person also brings us none of the results, a terrible style of play, and no youth development, then at least we can say we tried.
Pep brought us all 3. That is why he is so loved (Much to the chagrin of our infamous cult here). Tito brought us style of play and results. Tata brought us none of the three and left after one season. Lucho brought us all 3 in one season, then brought us 1 (style of play) in the following 2 seasons and left. Valverde has brought us... none.
Maybe I am entitled, I don't know. I wasn't a fan in the 90's. I wasn't even a fan before Ronaldinho. I haven't seen how low this club can get, and I understand that. But I still desperately want to find a way to find some joy in watching this team, and right now, I just don't see it. I'm not even mad anymore, or even sad. I just feel defeated and hopeless. I don't want Valverde to kill himself or anything like that, I just want my club back.
raedkuwait
Senior Member
That copa is useless after today loss, i rather we lose it and get rid of him, every
Time i c his face i spit on him
Time i c his face i spit on him
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Fine.
As I have said: sack EV, no problem.
That is a step one: a good coach.
Further, as I have posted regarding Cruijff, Van Gaal and all other coaches: maybe we are neglecting for years OTHER aspects of the game and rely too much on teaching kids how to play rondos.
I mean, we paid 160M for Coutinho and 145M for Dembele?
Coutinho has only technique and nothing else. Physique zero. Mental strength zero. Leadership ability zero.
Dembele has technique and pace. Mental strength, questionable. Leadership ability zero.
I have no idea how mentally strong is Frenkie.
We will see it in the future.
Let's hope that he is. And De Ligt.
I mean, look at tonight's match. How many truly mentally strong guys we had in a team? Vidal and Mats. And Suarez, Rakitic and some others are so-so.
So, we should probably get rid of older players to shake up a team.
And then make a mix of mostly technical players with 2-3-4 players with technique, some physique and leadership ability.
Fine, EV is a crap. But we have failed on some other levels to.
1. either our players are overrated
2. or, they are not (technically) overrated, but they lack a mental strength for matches like this one
Something is wrong besides EV.
Because we faced similar problems under Lucho, Tito, Tata, Van Gaal, Cruijff, Rijkaard, early 00s coaches.
I could say: sack EV and everything will be perfect in the next season's CL.
But it is not that simple.
We need to work on a lot of different areas in the future.
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