CL Round: Newcastle - Barca 1-2

Who wins?


  • Total voters
    21

FinBarcelonafan

Well-known member
What does that have to do with comment? Barca 2 best matches this season were without Yamal.

Happens often that supporting characters rise up when lead man is out.
We used to knock Madrid at Bernabeu twice without Messi, for example.

Yeah sure, but I don't think Yamal missing has anything to do Barca playing better. Barca just wasn't ready for the season to start yet, that's how it looked. Now they are finding their game a bit.

But yes the past two games were the best games for sure.
 
Didn't have the freaking channel to watch. Be a man and admit everything.

First goal is very good,underrated header.
Second is even better.

Joan Garcia was immense.

It always looked like the gk position was lagging compared to rest of the team,historically,
 

FC B

Senior Member
Struggled offensively big time in the first half and also didn't create much before Rashy's first goal but mostly after his second but missed chances way too easily.

This can be put on Lamine's absence which led Flick to play Raph on the right wing which didn't pay off at all but gladly Rash made quite a debut in CL for Barca with his two goals.

All in all it was a great away win on a difficult ground where not long ago Liverpool struggled to win and won much harder than Barca with a very late goal.
 

Birdy

Senior Member
I agree with you - to a point. The problem is xG still has flaws (needs to measure game state because teams will build xG when 3-0 down and the other team takes foot off gas etc, and should take into account who's shooting - obviously Haaland is more likely to score than Ake). To be fair those new game state graphs seem to be trying to remedy this somewhat.

Also, as I said, I like it as a stat in principle (though I agree it doesn't necessarily mean you dominated the game if you win it, just created better chances) - as I said my problem is how the numbers are sometimes calculated. I gave two examples above where the xG of Spurs and Man City in games against Man United just did not seem right. If I thought it was very accurate I would trust it more. But how did City have less than 2 xG against United last week and how did Spurs only have 0.8 xG that night they scored four? In both games those teams had objectively good chances that fell to good finishers.

The problem for me isn't the idea of the stat - it's that how it is calculated and some of the context it neglects can make it seem more flawed than it could be.

@Birdy what do you think? Are these thoughts fair?

Generally, it is as Temptation says.

There are things to improve for the future. For instance, a differentiated xG that takes into account the personal efficiency (based on the history of strikes from same positions) of each player is something to look forward in the future.

As for the game states, yes that is true. But that is the job of tactical analyst to take into account in a piece, and has no bearing on the method used for calculating xG

Finally, I would say there are different xG calculation models. No all are equally good. For instnace, understat is one of the worst in the industry. Opta and Statsbomb are top

PS: Let me add this again for people (like Serghei and others) that keep repeating this on purpose:
Total xG of a game says nothing, when you don't look specifically at the composition of that aggregate.
You always have to look at xG shotmap and look at the big (or at least semi-big) chances to draw conclusions.
That's over 0.3 xG or around that number.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Said this before but know of EPL clubs banning the talk of xG as it lacks too much and saw it as a distraction as to how games actually went at times.

You can make a world class move open a team up and miss strikers toes by a whisker for a tap and in nothing registered.

It is useful in ways to get some idea of dominance in shots made/chances but not something clubs use really at all.
 

Maradona37

Well-known member
Generally, it is as Temptation says.

There are things to improve for the future. For instance, a differentiated xG that takes into account the personal efficiency (based on the history of strikes from same positions) of each player is something to look forward in the future.

As for the game states, yes that is true. But that is the job of tactical analyst to take into account in a piece, and has no bearing on the method used for calculating xG

Finally, I would say there are different xG calculation models. No all are equally good. For instnace, understat is one of the worst in the industry. Opta and Statsbomb are top

PS: Let me add this again for people (like Serghei and others) that keep repeating this on purpose:
Total xG of a game says nothing, when you don't look specifically at the composition of that aggregate.
You always have to look at xG shotmap and look at the big (or at least semi-big) chances to draw conclusions.
That's over 0.3 xG or around that number.
Thanks, lots of that makes sense. And yeah, you give good explanations for most of the flaws I pointed out. Good point too that cumulative xG is more misleading and it's more about the bigger chances. I assume a lot of nothing chances would often accumulate a bigger xG than two very very good chances. So like you say it's more about xG for the individual chances.

I have some other thoughts I might put down on paper at some point.

Just one thing - you didn't reply to what I said about that Spurs game and the City game at the weekend, both against United (as examples).

I will just take the game at the weekend as it is fresh in the memory - I assume you watched it, or at least have seen highlights and saw the copious one on ones City either converted or missed.

How can xG come to the conclusion that their expected goals was fewer than 2? Haaland scored two chances that were very good chances, for starters. He also missed pretty much a sitter off the post (admittedly someone, I think it was Luke Shaw, was in the way putting him off and he tried to avoid him hence the miss) and Reijnders was through on goal too. That allied to a few other decent chances, and Foden's goal might have been low xG but still was a fairly good chance - how does xG come to the conclusion it was fewer than 2 xG?

What I am asking is, when you see the xG figures (for the sites you reference as good), do you trust them implicilty? Or do you ask yourself if it reflects what you seen in the game with your eyes (if you watched the game or seen the highlights).

My problem isn't with xG as a use, my problem is that some of the figures the models come up with don't seem to match what I watched. Admittedly I could be being biased in the entire eye test, but I think anyone who watched that game at the weekend would say an xG of 3 for City would be fair - not less than 2 xG
 

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