Champions League

[Morten]

Rather static positional game with quick switches on the wings, and insistence on crossing. He needed something different for this tie vs City. He needed fluidity in the center to unlock such pressing situations.



Well, long balls is how City planned to make Madrid play. There were no passes between the line available, because Madrid play a rather static and rigid style, similar to italian football that Zidane played in for a big part of his career.

Well, Ramos long passing is solid, so it would have helped.
But Ramos was suspended, so Zidane should have had a plan, but it didnt really look like it.

 

[serghei]

Madrid also lack the passing outlet from the goalkeeper that teams like Liverpool, City and Barcelona have in their goalkeepers. Courtois done some monster saves, yet his passing accuracy also increased the % of Varane's mistake in City's first goal.

Overall Madrid played a decent game and made it uncomfortable at times but undone themselves with their own errors. Missing Ramos and playing the ball out from Courtois were costly.

That passing outlet is decided also by patterns of movement. Madrid have few of those. Like the scheme where Busi dropped deep to ease the tension on the back-line from the Pep days. All those mechanisms made that team impossible to press well. And the lack of such devices in Madrid's tactical approach makes them easy to press.

Madrid are mostly effective against teams that sit deep. The teams that attack them usually beat them or at least dominate them: Barca in La Liga, City in CL, Bayern dominated them both times paying on the front foot on Bernabeu. But against negative teams like Juve, Atletico, they are very effective.

 

[El Gato]

No, it's a way of playing. I meant that when used the word "system".

Good to know.

BTW
That's not how we play consistently either.

Madrid are mostly effective against teams that sit deep. The teams that attack them usually beat them or at least dominate them: Barca in La Liga, City in CL, Bayern dominated them both times paying on the front foot on Bernabeu. But against negative teams like Juve, Atletico, they are very effective.

No we aren't. We bang against the wall in those situations more often than not.

 

[serghei]

Good to know.

BTW
That's not how we play consistently either.

Of course not, you find yourselves very rarely in situations where you need the things I've said. Matches like this one vs City are almost non-existent in La Liga. Nobody plays anywhere close to that style in Spain currently.

I remember you had issues with Las Palmas in the days where they played offensive, applying pressure on your build-up. 3-3 if I remember correctly on Bernabeu right in your best season 2016-17.

 

[Morten]

That passing outlet is decided also by patterns of movement. Madrid have few of those. Like the scheme where Busi dropped deep to ease the tension on the back-line from the Pep days. All those mechanisms made that team impossible to press well. And the lack of such devices in Madrid's tactical approach makes them easy to press.

Madrid are mostly effective against teams that sit deep. The teams that attack them usually beat them or at least dominate them: Barca in La Liga, City in CL, Bayern dominated them both times paying on the front foot on Bernabeu. But against negative teams like Juve, Atletico, they are very effective.

We used to be effective against high lines with counter attacks.
I guess we've lost a great deal in that department, i wouldnt say we are good against a low block though.

 

[serghei]

We used to be effective against high lines with counter attacks.
I guess we've lost a great deal in that department.

True, but that's on transition, not on possession spells. The weakness I'm talking about is on positional play phase. You hurt even today's City on counters, Isco's goal was from a quick counter after a turnover by Rodri, with a good play by Vinicius.

But it's not enough.

 

[serghei]

I see Bayern - Barca being the same as City - Madrid tie only worse for us. They will press us and our lack of movement will make it near impossible to connect between the lines. Then every turnover will generate great danger for our defense.

I wouldn't be surprised if one goal is after an individual fuck-up under pressure, like the ones Varane made. Pique is a good candidate to make such an error with his casual style. Busi is another player who makes such errors.

They will face pressure similar to the Liverpool game. They all crumbled under pressure. Same thing will happen.

 

[Porque]

That passing outlet is decided also by patterns of movement. Madrid have few of those. Like the scheme where Busi dropped deep to ease the tension on the back-line from the Pep days. All those mechanisms made that team impossible to press well. And the lack of such devices in Madrid's tactical approach makes them easy to press.

Madrid are mostly effective against teams that sit deep. The teams that attack them usually beat them or at least dominate them: Barca in La Liga, City in CL, Bayern dominated them both times paying on the front foot on Bernabeu. But against negative teams like Juve, Atletico, they are very effective.

Yeah, but with Courtois there is no option to go short nor even long. He has the passing accuracy of a goldfish. Even going long to Benzema or going to the wings for space to have Madrid's widemen run onto the ball is difficult for him.

And the above is when not under pressure! Fantastic shotstopper though.

 

[serghei]

Yeah, but with Courtois there is no option to go short nor even long. He has the passing accuracy of a goldfish. Even going long to Benzema or going to the wings for space to have Madrid's widemen run onto the ball is difficult for him.

And the above is when not under pressure! Fantastic shotstopper though.

True, and Madrid don't do well on long balls. Benzema is not exactly Drogba. And Rodrygo and Hazard are mediocre in the air if not plain bad. If they had some target man up front, at least one who was great in this area, they would've played long. But as it stood, playing long was almost giving the ball away.

 

[Morten]

Its not like you need to be particulary briliant at passing it out from the back to be a great team.
If Liverpool cant do that they just go long and wins the 2nd ball high up the pitch, they are very good at that.

 

[JamDav1982]

Its not like you need to be particulary briliant at passing it out from the back to be a great team.
If Liverpool cant do that they just go long and wins the 2nd ball high up the pitch, they are very good at that.

Liverpool rarely ever if at all go long and fight to win second ball but VVD and Gomes are very good at switching play to the wide players that hug touchline when have ball at back.

 

[serghei]

Its not like you need to be particulary briliant at passing it out from the back to be a great team.
If Liverpool cant do that they just go long and wins the 2nd ball high up the pitch, they are very good at that.

Sure, but Liverpool are relentless movers and very aggressive. You lack that. Also, Liverpool do well when pressed, it's not very smart to press them. You beat them the way AM did. Have a great keeper, score your chances, and defend well. And hope they are in a weak day with their finishing. Same as vs Pep Barca really. I haven't seen teams pressing Liverpool and imposing their style on them.

 

[Morten]

Liverpool rarely ever if at all go long and fight to win second ball but VVD and Gomes are very good at switching play to the wide players that hug touchline when have ball at back.

They are good in possession, but no, i have seen them playing it long quite often.
They play long balls to Salah/Mane on the run, if they cant get it, they press the opponent immediately to force mistakes.

 

[El Gato]

So much waffle and misuse of words that nobody even knows what it is you mean serghei. Always coming in with these big words that you think hold some meaning to you, but not to anyone else

a) Madrid do not have a defined system, ergo a tactical arrangement used regularly and repetitively leading to a pattern of plays. We did not see Zidane having a consistent system in any of his 3 full seasons at Real Madrid. We used several formations, depending on the game, leading to different patterns.
b) Madrid are absolutely fine when out of possession provided they play the right personnel for the job that aren't slow, on form (not mishandling touches when under pressure, not missing passes etc) and effectively creating danger on the other end.
c) Madrid are also fine in possession provided there are players who create openings. Hazard has been apprehensive and conservative. Kroos never been any different. Modrić was great at that since June. Fede is also very good in attack (we struggled to score pretty much every match in autumn he wasn't in) and makes up ground much faster when going back to defend, therefore a valuable piece against young teams.

City game was never going to be easy because all City needed to do was take away the first progressive pass. They knew it'd go to one of CKM with Modrić being the preferred target - man barely got on the ball and was nearly always forced to make up 50m of vertical space while being pressed by 2-3 players.
In the event of no pass being made to Modrić, one needs to look to flanks. Tried to get Hazard on the ball, but suffered the same fate.
Mistakes were made in selection, preparation and attitude. There was 5x less actual fight against the pressing than in most of the games leading up to La Liga win. To add to that, big errors were made at half time since team came out worse than in 1st half. And yet, the game was absolutely winnable.

 

[serghei]

Looks to me like you are in denial.

I told you before about the rigidity of Madrid's positional game, and you saw yesterday what that was about. But still refuse to accept it. If you don't know what rigidity vs fluidity is in positional game, of course you don't understand the comments.

https://www.guidetofootball.com/tactics/system-fluidity/

Here, some food for thought.