Maradona37
Well-known member
Simple but effective. Always the funniest jokes.
Champions League 25/26
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
Gnidrologist
Senior Member
Boomer joke.
Maradona37
Well-known member
You wounded me, mate. You're a cruel guy at times, lol.
Birdy
Senior Member
Maradona37
Well-known member
Thanks man. Hope you're fine.
serghei
Senior Member
Didn't Spurs have the great manager called Ange Postecoglu?
Spurs knew how to set up just fine vs PSG initially until they got scared. As soon as they realized they can win, they played like a small team with a small time mentality. Subs were horrible by Frank.
Spurs are a deeply flawed club, the best managers walk away when they feel this on their own skin like Mourinho and Conte did.
To last long at Spurs, you need to be very accustomed to being average.
Birdy
Senior Member
Didn't Spurs have the great manager called Ange Postecoglu?
Spurs knew how to set up just fine vs PSG initially until they got scared. As soon as they realized they can win, they played like a small team with a small time mentality. Subs were horrible by Frank.
Spurs are a deeply flawed club, the best managers walk away when they feel this on their own skin like Mourinho and Conte did.
To last long at Spurs, you need to be very accustomed to being average.
Some more generic BS with no substance and no attempt to understand.
Spurs did not change their game plan at all. It was all compact deep and mid block in 5-3-2.
PSG upped their game in the 2nd half, and even more after Ramos entered the pitch
Frank is a great manager and he will prove that at Spurs.
He won't finish top-4 though, because unlike farmer's LL, EPL is not dominated by 2 clubs only, and even clubs like Villa and Newcastle are already well ahead in their projects
serghei
Senior Member
Frank is a great manager?
Based on what?Spurs are 5th biggest spenders in the entire league over the last five years. After Chelsea, United, City, and slightly behind Arsenal. Everyone gives them a break not because they invest much less than competitors, but because they do a much poorer job at managing their team.
They should be expected to finish 5th normally and challenge for the top 4. They should be neck and neck with Arsenal. Only team doing worse than them based on investments vs return is United.
True though, Frank is just starting, after you last "great manager" Ange got the sack for finishing 15th with a top 6-8 squad.
Funny thing with "projects". Mediocre management will always reset the project. Amorim is just starting his "project" with United. About the 6-7th new project of theirs. Tottenham has 5-6 new projects also. Poch, Conte, Ange, Frank...
The only top manager that club had, the only real big winner was Conte. And Mourinho, forgot about him. Neither stayed there for too long. Frank is just another midtable manager, for a midtable club. 6th - 10th.
Let him win some serious titles first then he'll be a top manager. So what if the league is strong? You invested 1bn in the team. You should be fucking strong also.
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Birdy
Senior Member
Some more BS, with the same entitled mindset that only spoiled children have.Frank is a great manager?
Spurs are 5th biggest spenders in the entire league over the last five years. After Chelsea, United, City, and slightly behind Arsenal. Everyone gives them a break not because they invest much less than competitors, but because they do a much poorer job at managing their team.
They should be expected to finish 5th normally and challenge for the top 4. They should be neck and neck with Arsenal. Only team doing worse than them based on investments vs return is United.
True though, Frank is just starting, after you last "great manager" Ange got the sack for finishing 15th with a top 6-8 squad.
Funny thing with "projects". Mediocre management will always reset the project. Amorim is just starting his "project" with United. About the 6-7th new project of theirs. Tottenham has 5-6 new projects also. Poch, Conte, Ange, Frank...
The only top manager that club had, the only real big winner was Conte. And Mourinho, forgot about him. Neither stayed there for too long. Frank is just another midtable manager, for a midtable club. 6th - 10th.
Let him win some serious titles first then he'll be a top manager. So what if the league is strong? You invested 1bn in the team. You should be fucking strong also.
When you were young, did your parents get you all your toys and everything you wanted, so you never learnt the concept of having to earn something?
- Frank is a great manager based on what he did at Brentford, a job 9/10 managers out there could not do.
Same with Amorim and what he did at Sporting
Same with Ange and what he did at Celtic
Basic symptom of low understanding of the sport is failing to acknowledge work at lower tier clubs
- Spurs being the 5th net spenders the last 5 years says shite, first because you have to look the last 15 not the last 5, but more importantly because wages are the biggest cost in a squad and not transfer fees.
Look up where they are in terms of wage bill, and then judge what overachievement Ange did with winning Europa league and with finishing 5th last season
- Tottenham had a solid project with Poch, whose cycle was over circa 2019. Then, the idiotic management instead of supporting Poch and re-starting, or at least hiring a promising manager to kickstart a new project, went for glory-hunting short-term success first with Mou, then with Conte.
They paid their price
PS: The same folk in here who whine day in day out about 'titles' have no clue about the actual process of getting titles, that is building a sound foundation first and erecting the right projects to lead you to the top.
They only know the concept of 'buying titles' that oil clubs have tried
Maradona37
Well-known member
I don't agree with everything, but some good points and well thought out.
Great pertinent point that you hint at with transfer fees not being the signifier of success, but wage bill.
serghei
Senior Member
- How a manger does at a lower level, qualifies him and proves him when operating at that level only. Once you leave that level, and ascend a higher level, the espectations are much stricter and margin of error is much lower. Your response to that is not to aknowledge the objectives and expectations of the new level, but to moan about "oh, it's so hard" and provide endless excuses.
At the same time, you have a history of trashing managers who won at that superior level, the same level others chase (including your "greats") and aspire to reach but seldom do. Boy, I tell you, this is some fucked up definition of great. Almost as if you say some Formula 3 driver is better than Hamilton or Verstappen, but he just didn't have the luck to make it to Formula 1. It's an insult for the truly great drivers who came through lower ranks and affirmed themselves in Formula 1, taking all of that added pressure and beating it in their roat to the top.
The pressure is constant, and the higher the club, the higher the ambitions, the harder it is to make a mark. Many many would cope better with medium funds and low expectations, than high funds but also high expectations. Spending time at a midtable club that fights for nothing and considers anything but relegation as a success is not what greatness is built on. In any field.
That's how you end up being a clown, trashing managers like Ancelotti and bigging up likes of Thomas Frank because he did well at fecking Brentford.
- Spurs, after United, are the most chronically undermanaged club in England from top to bottom in the last 5 years. If you don't believe me, watch again Conte's rant about Tottenham as a club. He went at Chelsea, won a Prem title with them, went at Tottenham and was shocked at the club's non existent winning mentality. Poch was overrated as well, another one of your failed shiny knights. That's why he coaches the US national team now and is out of elite football.
You know what Thomas Frank's objective is at Tottenham? Do what Poch did, get to a club like PSG, and once you get there and land the big job, don't fuck up and end up at United States Mens Soccer team. That's the road to being great. And it almost never stops.
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Maradona37
Well-known member
You're both arguing your case well. Both sides have some merit. Just my 10 pence.
serghei
Senior Member
He'd have some merit with this argument if he didn't trash past great managers. You need to have a very limited understanding of football to consider Thomas Frank a great manager and at the same time undervalue likes of Simeone, and his heroics with Atletico Madrid. If you're an underdog lover, you'll logically be inclined to consider Simeone as a near-inspirational managerial figure.
Which makes me think he is the type of football fan to have a certain predisposition to a football culture, EPL in this case, and is in awe with just about anyone who is merely part of it while doing a good job. His Aston Villa would beat Ancelotti Milan and Pep Barca and losing to Klopp Liverpool certainly flow in that direction.
That's not to say that the managers he is promoting aren't good ones, but to be great sooner rather than later you have to take on a tremendously difficult task and win. Like Klopp did with Dortmund, like Pep did at Barcelona, like Simeone did with Atletico, like Ancelotti did with Milan, Madrid. And so on. Those are the greats of football.
Which makes me think he is the type of football fan to have a certain predisposition to a football culture, EPL in this case, and is in awe with just about anyone who is merely part of it while doing a good job. His Aston Villa would beat Ancelotti Milan and Pep Barca and losing to Klopp Liverpool certainly flow in that direction.
That's not to say that the managers he is promoting aren't good ones, but to be great sooner rather than later you have to take on a tremendously difficult task and win. Like Klopp did with Dortmund, like Pep did at Barcelona, like Simeone did with Atletico, like Ancelotti did with Milan, Madrid. And so on. Those are the greats of football.
Maradona37
Well-known member
Yes mate I understand your point. I see what you are saying.
I do think Frank is a very good manager, but yeah it's not a case where every manager can make the step up to elite level just with more resources - the same as not every player can be Messi or Ronaldo just because they go to Barca or Real Madrid.
Birdy
Senior Member
- A manager doing well at lower level does NOT guarantee he will do the same at tier 1, but it is a good indicator. In fact, other than the privileged managers who jumped to the seat of top clubs only because of their legend status as players (a strategy that is becoming obsolete day by day) all the other managers ever succeeded at top clubs come from that pool.
- Labelling 'excuses' the dire reality that no manager at Spurs can compete for at least the next 3-4 years against the mega-projects that already run and rule, like Pep's City or Klopp's Pool in the past, is indicative of low understanding of football and entitled mindset
- I have discredited some managers that won at top level, but those were either managers with no tactical identity or vision about the sport, or ultra-defensive ones that destroyed any joy the sport brings. I bet the three you are referring to are Ancelotti, Zidane, and Mourinho. Can't think of any other I discredited
- My personal view is that Spurs were run greatly up until Poch, then it has been a mess with Levy being the no1 responsible. But whether Spurs are run well is really off-topic to the discussion we are having.
- Poch had been a top tier coach, and still is (although the last 5 years he had lost some steam, and guys like Nagelsman Tuchel Ten Hag and others are ahead of him). He made the grave error of going to PSG at a time that club was a back hole for coaches, swallowing even the greatest. He paid the price. He then went to Chelsea, did a great job, only to fall victim of one of the weirdest football hierarchies (under Bohley) in football in recent times.
There was a reason this guy was no1 in the shortlist of Madrid and City circa 2019, and stupid Bartomeu had almost sealed him for Barca only to back down because of his Espanyol past and hire Koeman.
The fact that you don't acknowledge Poch and his work shows again low understanding of the sport.
PS: It's easy to be Ancelotti, so privileged of not having to fight through the lower-ranks to rise to the top level.
To be handed the best jobs in the best league (Serie A at the time) without having something to show, or only failed stints (Parma and juve), and still be handed by Berlosconi one of the best squads ever to compete.
That's not the story of 99% coaches out there (including some great ones), who entitled views like yours hugely disrespect
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