Alexis Sanchez

BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
serghei said:
If a player -- any player for that matter -- provides goals and assists like Alexis did this season, that makes him an asset for FC Barcelona.
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I don't dislike him because of haircut or some random personal reasons.
In fact, he is a very likeable guy and I am sorry because he will probably have to go.

I just think that if he is meant to be our 2nd most dangerous player, that we will have moderate success in future La Ligas (we will win some, we will lose some).
And I am almost 90% sure that we won't win any CL in the next 5 years if our attack will be Messi-Neymar-Alexis.
(Except if Neymar turns on a godlike mode and starts to be a Messi no2, then we could win everything with 2 Messis+Alexis as our 3rd guy.
But with an average Neymar like from this Season and with Alexis as our 2nd most dangerous guy, we will wait a loooooot of years and we will waste Messi's final years here also, without any CL trophies). That's it from Messi then. 2006, 09 and 11, that's it.
 
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Trickykid

Trickykid

New member
BBZ8800 said:
I don't dislike him because of haircut or some random personal reasons.
In fact, he is a very likeable guy and I am sorry because he will probably have to go.

I just think that if he is meant to be our 2nd most dangerous player, that we will have moderate success in future La Ligas (we will win some, we will lose some).
And I am almost 90% sure that we won't win any CL in the next 5 years if our attack will be Messi-Neymar-Alexis.
(Except if Neymar turns on a godlike mode and starts to be a Messi no2, then we could win everything with 2 Messis+Alexis as our 3rd guy.
But with an average Neymar like from this Season and with Alexis as our 2nd most dangerous guy, we will wait a loooooot of years and we will waste Messi's final years here also, without any CL trophies). That's it from Messi then. 2006, 09 and 11, that's it.
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If Eto'o, Milito and Pandev(!), or Drogba with Kalou and Bertrand as supporting wingers can win the ChL, obviously Messi, Nerman and Alexis can too. Saying otherwise is plain silly.
As Atletico has just proven, being a great team means being a great TEAM. It's more than just the sum of the players. If Lucho turns out to be the great coach we all hope, he'll get the most out of players such as Nerman and Alexis. They both have talent coming out their ass, that much should be obvious to anyone, but it's another thing entirely to harness such talent.

Also, I really don't get this point you're constantly trying to push, about Alexis being meant to be our second most dangerous player. He was the second most dangerous player this season, in terms of statistics, at least, but it's like you think we'll just settle for that. Don't you think Lucho will try to push Neymar for instance to produce better? You seem to think the team has this predefined role in the system called the second most dangerous player, and that Alexis is currently occupying that spot in favour of someone more dangerous. It boggles my mind.
 
Djab

Djab

New member
Trickykid said:
If Eto'o, Milito and Pandev(!), or Drogba with Kalou and Bertrand as supporting wingers can win the ChL, obviously Messi, Nerman and Alexis can too. Saying otherwise is plain silly.
As Atletico has just proven, being a great team means being a great TEAM. It's more than just the sum of the players. If Lucho turns out to be the great coach we all hope, he'll get the most out of players such as Nerman and Alexis. They both have talent coming out their ass, that much should be obvious to anyone, but it's another thing entirely to harness such talent.

Also, I really don't get this point you're constantly trying to push, about Alexis being meant to be our second most dangerous player. He was the second most dangerous player this season, in terms of statistics, at least, but it's like you think we'll just settle for that. Don't you think Lucho will try to push Neymar for instance to produce better? You seem to think the team has this predefined role in the system called the second most dangerous player, and that Alexis is currently occupying that spot in favour of someone more dangerous. It boggles my mind.
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This. So much this.
 
Galning

Galning

Moderator
Trickykid said:
If Eto'o, Milito and Pandev(!), or Drogba with Kalou and Bertrand as supporting wingers can win the ChL, obviously Messi, Nerman and Alexis can too. Saying otherwise is plain silly.
As Atletico has just proven, being a great team means being a great TEAM. It's more than just the sum of the players. If Lucho turns out to be the great coach we all hope, he'll get the most out of players such as Nerman and Alexis. They both have talent coming out their ass, that much should be obvious to anyone, but it's another thing entirely to harness such talent.

Also, I really don't get this point you're constantly trying to push, about Alexis being meant to be our second most dangerous player. He was the second most dangerous player this season, in terms of statistics, at least, but it's like you think we'll just settle for that. Don't you think Lucho will try to push Neymar for instance to produce better? You seem to think the team has this predefined role in the system called the second most dangerous player, and that Alexis is currently occupying that spot in favour of someone more dangerous. It boggles my mind.
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:beer2:
 
Sumlit

Sumlit

San Claudio Bravo
Trickykid said:
If Eto'o, Milito and Pandev(!), or Drogba with Kalou and Bertrand as supporting wingers can win the ChL, obviously Messi, Nerman and Alexis can too. Saying otherwise is plain silly.
As Atletico has just proven, being a great team means being a great TEAM. It's more than just the sum of the players. If Lucho turns out to be the great coach we all hope, he'll get the most out of players such as Nerman and Alexis. They both have talent coming out their ass, that much should be obvious to anyone, but it's another thing entirely to harness such talent.

Also, I really don't get this point you're constantly trying to push, about Alexis being meant to be our second most dangerous player. He was the second most dangerous player this season, in terms of statistics, at least, but it's like you think we'll just settle for that. Don't you think Lucho will try to push Neymar for instance to produce better? You seem to think the team has this predefined role in the system called the second most dangerous player, and that Alexis is currently occupying that spot in favour of someone more dangerous. It boggles my mind.
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I don't think this is a fair comparison and is a bit misleading.

Firtly, your team comparisons are of decidedly and totally defensive minded teams. 2010 Inter, 2012 Chelsea and 2014 Atletico are defensive first teams and to compare the offensive output of these teams against a Barcelona side who is an offensive minded club is incredibly unfair.

Secondly, you're also comparing different players here. Not only are those team's player bigger and stronger, but they are actual forwards as opposed to Barcelona's wingers/wing attacking midfielders. Eto'o, Milito, Balotelli (who was their 3rd leading scorer and played more than Pandev, btw) for Inter. Drogba, Torres, Sturridge, for Chelsea who also got double digit scoring from 3 different midfielders. That's a poor comparison IMHO.

Whether Alexis was or was not meant to be the team's 2nd most dangerous player matters not. He was, in fact, exactly that, mostly by default and therein lies the problem.

Neymar might very well improve next season; Alexis might very well be able to repeat his year, though I doubt he can improve much on it; Lucho might very well get the team playing better than it did this year; But at the end of the day, the only reliable scorer on this team and the one who will have to carry the burden again, will be Messi. At the end of the day, the team's other 2 primary offensive weapons are more attacking wing midfielders than actual wing forwards. And at the end of the day, Alexis will still have his deficiencies that constantly prop up and cost the team, mainly his poor finishing, his poor dribbling, his inability to create scoring for himself consistently and his support first mentality.
 
Trickykid

Trickykid

New member
Sumlit said:
I don't think this is a fair comparison and is a bit misleading.

Firtly, your team comparisons are of decidedly and totally defensive minded teams. 2010 Inter, 2012 Chelsea and 2014 Atletico are defensive first teams and to compare the offensive output of these teams against a Barcelona side who is an offensive minded club is incredibly unfair.

Secondly, you're also comparing different players here. Not only are those team's player bigger and stronger, but they are actual forwards as opposed to Barcelona's wingers/wing attacking midfielders. Eto'o, Milito, Balotelli (who was their 3rd leading scorer and played more than Pandev, btw) for Inter. Drogba, Torres, Sturridge, for Chelsea who also got double digit scoring from 3 different midfielders. That's a poor comparison IMHO.

Whether Alexis was or was not meant to be the team's 2nd most dangerous player matters not. He was, in fact, exactly that, mostly by default and therein lies the problem.

Neymar might very well improve next season; Alexis might very well be able to repeat his year, though I doubt he can improve much on it; Lucho might very well get the team playing better than it did this year; But at the end of the day, the only reliable scorer on this team and the one who will have to carry the burden again, will be Messi. At the end of the day, the team's other 2 primary offensive weapons are more attacking wing midfielders than actual wing forwards. And at the end of the day, Alexis will still have his deficiencies that constantly prop up and cost the team, mainly his poor finishing, his poor dribbling, his inability to create scoring for himself consistently and his support first mentality.
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I really didn't feel like replying to this, as it's the same arguments you produce over and over again.

I'll say this much, though. My point when arguing that that Alexis is good enough for a ChL winning side, was obviously that not all players in a winning side have to be all-out, full-blown world beaters. Less will do, if it suits the team as an entity. There really was no need for you to go into a stats seeking frenzy in order to prove me wrong in that. I, unlike you and others of course, actually think that Alexis fits in this team, and as mentioned, if Lucho does his job well, perhaps he'll even make him fit even better than previously.

Also, I'll take the liberty to judge Alexis on the season that has just come to an end, and not his previous two. In this season, he has been the consistent scorer you claim he's not. Whether he can reproduce this next season, or he'll revert to Alexis of old, remains to be seen. I won't dwell on times long passed, though. I bet you'll grasp for the Alexis-can't-score-in-ChL card yet again, and I can't blame you, as it's obviously not good enough to go scoreless through a ChL season, but as Semi-Neutral already pointed out some pages ago, he played less that it would seem. And it's not exactly like Alexis can't score on the biggest of stages, as he's proven more than a few times over, so not scoring against the Spartak Moscow's of this world, really doesn't bother me too much.

Anyhow, we've been over this countless times before, Sumlit, and we won't see eye to eye on the matter, that much is clear. We rate Alexis differently. Simple as.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
Trickykid said:
I bet you'll grasp for the Alexis-can't-score-in-ChL card yet again, and I can't blame you, as it's obviously not good enough to go scoreless through a ChL season, but as Semi-Neutral already pointed out some pages ago, he played less that it would seem. And it's not exactly like Alexis can't score on the biggest of stages, as he's proven more than a few times over, so not scoring against the Spartak Moscow's of this world, really doesn't bother me too much.
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Especially since Alexis didn't play bad. Here's a GIF with his contribution on one of the more difficult games we've played in group stage, on Celtic Park. In fact, he was great in both games vs Celtic, even though he came in late in the away one.

Fabregasgif.gif
 
Sumlit

Sumlit

San Claudio Bravo
Trickykid said:
I really didn't feel like replying to this, as it's the same arguments you produce over and over again.

I'll say this much, though. My point when arguing that that Alexis is good enough for a ChL winning side, was obviously that not all players in a winning side have to be all-out, full-blown world beaters. Less will do, if it suits the team as an entity. There really was no need for you to go into a stats seeking frenzy in order to prove me wrong in that. I, unlike you and others of course, actually think that Alexis fits in this team, and as mentioned, if Lucho does his job well, perhaps he'll even make him fit even better than previously.

Also, I'll take the liberty to judge Alexis on the season that has just come to an end, and not his previous two. In this season, he has been the consistent scorer you claim he's not. Whether he can reproduce this next season, or he'll revert to Alexis of old, remains to be seen. I won't dwell on times long passed, though. I bet you'll grasp for the Alexis-can't-score-in-ChL card yet again, and I can't blame you, as it's obviously not good enough to go scoreless through a ChL season, but as Semi-Neutral already pointed out some pages ago, he played less that it would seem. And it's not exactly like Alexis can't score on the biggest of stages, as he's proven more than a few times over, so not scoring against the Spartak Moscow's of this world, really doesn't bother me too much.

Anyhow, we've been over this countless times before, Sumlit, and we won't see eye to eye on the matter, that much is clear. We rate Alexis differently. Simple as.
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Well Tricky, I mentioned no stats in my response, so I don't know here you got the "stats seeking frenzy" part.

However as to the rest, you have me wrong. I very much agree with the premise of that you said in this post, except maybe nitpicking some points like Alexis playing less than it would seem, but that would be a fruitless argument. You'll find no argument from me as to your main point.

I disagree however about Alexis being a consistent and reliable scorer, but as you say we don't see eye to eye on this and I won't repeat stats lest you reprimand me for it.

As far as my rating of Alexis, as I have said countless times before, my criticism is not of the player, but the role Barcelona are asking for him. I've said many times I think Alexis is a very talented player and has a great personality. I've also never said he does not fit in the club, merely does not fit the role currently required of him. Nor also do I necessarily want the club to sell, but merely find a player better suited for the role being asked of Alexis, so that he in turn can be played in a role more suited to his skillset.

Though, if you feel this argument between us has been rehashed already far too much, then let us end it.
 
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