7 - Ferran Torres

[feggydinho]

Since 2012:
1. Barca couldn't replicate their golden era
2. Spain couldn't replicate their golden era
3. the only one who came close was Pep, but only in league competitions against weaker teams with ultra-rich teams

Barca had 10 CL attempts after 2012', 4 of them with MSN and 9 with Messi. 1 title.
Pep had 9 CL attempts after 2012'. 0 titles.
Spain had 5 WCs/Euros after 2012. 0 titles.

24 major tournaments. 1 win.
Yet, we are still trying to replicate 2008-2012.

Xavi's tenure is a perfect example of what is wrong around Barcelona, I have been repeating the same for a few years:
1. if you want to replicate EXACT copy of 2008-2012: you can't, because we don't have such players and we'll never have it again.
So, if you want to play Pep's football with current players, you'll get something like Setien's Barca at best.
2. if you want to move to something new, you'll get one of these propblems:
1) you'll either move away too much from Barca's values, like EV and you'll get hated by fans.
2) you'll try to create some weird mix of Barca's football and new ideas (like Xavi's crossing game played with 170cm tall Barca DNA players) = and then you'll get something which both doesn't look eye pleasing, results are shit, fans are mad and we aren't moving forward.

In short:
1. if you want to replicate the past = it won't work
2. if you want to move to something new = fans will be mad because fans want a return to 2008-2012 which is not working anymore

An eternal catch 22.
Welcome to Fc Barcelona.

Pep's era = heaven and death of Barca.

Xavi isn't trying to replicate Pep's barca, he's playing to win with what he has and he did an okay job with us finishing 2nd (his style helped us win some top half la liga clubs by 4 goals), so something was working. Crossing is now part of the modern game, even Liverpool and Man City do that, but you also need plenty movements in the box

 

[BBZ8800]

There are plenty of top teams with players of similar builds to Pedri and Gavi...Modric, Foden, B Silva etc.

That is absolutely false to suggest other clubs dont have those types of players while other top teams would take Pedri and Gavi in an instant.

The issue is when dont balance midfield with others that bring more physical elements... City have Rodri, Real have Casimero/Camavinga etc and Barca have the worst speciemen will see in any top league at DM in Busquets.

Torres for City scored 16 goals at 21 for Spain was their best player last year and was goo for Valencia also. The issue is if Xavi thinks he bought him to be an isolated winger who drives at teams from touchline he has got it wrong.

If/when Dembele leaves and if Barca get Lewandowski the wide options will most likley be Fati, Torres, Raphinha (if signed) and even Auba as an option.... every one of those are wide forwards or AMs that want to cut in and be in and around box. If Barca try to play this wide wingers style not only is it abysmal tactical set up with obviuous flaws but dont even have wingers who go on outside to play it.

If Fati/Torres/Raphinha and Auba are wider options the team absolutely needs FBs that can take width and get forward to get them narrower and nearer opposition area.

That in turn allows midfield to be a midfield and not Xavis positional cones trying to help CF and get inbetween lines holding position rather than trying to help give options to Busi and create combinations/overloads in middle of park to creat space.

But no... Barca are not going for full backs of any quality.. they are trying to renew an Alves who cant run, pay Roberto 6m a season and sign full backs who are in their 30s and will have same issue of getting up and providing width.

Barca never learna and double down on old players that lack the basics and bring in players to play positions they never have before joining the club.

Same year after year and nothing ever done to fix it.

This summer just looks lik more of same and hiding behind finances for the failures.

Well, I agree with you.
I am not saying that players like Pedri/Gavi can't play.

But you can have one of them.
And then you need to surround them with physical/faster/combative players.
Only at Barca you'll see a combo of Busi, Gavi, Pedri, Torres playing together. Fc Turtleona 1899.

I get your point BBZ but you have to admit that this is also due to our financial problems.

We have financial problems and then we splash 60m in a post-covid era on a clown like Torres who is good at nothing except linkup and playing 1-2s

Also, regarding Barca DNA, can you name one 1st division club in the world who would keep a player of Puig's physique and skills?
Not only that we have kept him for 3-4 years around the first team, but Riki gained an enormous army of fans and followers.
Insane.

It often feels as if there are:
1. the real world
2. and then "a planet Barca" where Barca's fans, socios, the board, papers live. Where totally different rules and logic apply.

I am not saying that all of our fans are crazy.
But a huge majority are suffering from Barca-DNA delusion sickness in a smaller or larger amounts.

 

[ajnotkeith]

Busi, Gavi, Pedri

There is no such team in the world with physique of those players.
Add Ferran's pace into that.

In general, all teams in the world moved to more physical players (between two players with technique 10/10 who have 5/10 and 9/10 physique, other teams are moving to players who are taller, stronger, faster, with insane stamina, defending etc).
Name me one top team in Europe who would play a profile of Torres in attack. A winger with no pace or dribbles.
Who on earth would play Busi, especially 34 years old Busi?
Barca-ballplaying CB Eric.
Barca-ballplaying GK MATS.

Should I even need to mention a part with no leaders, no fighting spirit, no aggression, just a bunch of nice choir boys, as always?

1. which top team has as many choir boys as us?
2. which top teams has shorter average height than us?
3. Busquets
4. technical, soft players

So, inspite of Xavi's crosses, there are tons of Barca DNA written all over our players, coach, president, socios, transfer policy.



Tata started well.
He didn't have possession, media went crazy.
EV was on top for 2 and a half season straight. Sacked because he didn't play beautiful Barca's way.

So, no.
Fans don't want a beautiful football.
They want only one version of a beautiful football.
You know which one that is.

This is really wrong and maybe you don't know it but by blaming the perceived poor physicality of the players (it isn't really) you are indirectly giving a cop out to Xavi and saying his squad is too bad. But your analysis of the issues are all wrong.

Ferran is not slow, first of all. He has a super high top speed and even got recorded as one of the fastest in LL when he was here. He actually just lacks ability but people continue with these cliches about physicality when they don't observe the game.

This season we have played Araujo, FDJ, Adama, Auba, Dembele etc who are all super fast players with good size too, then we play big guys like Pique and even LDJ at times. For our level (fringe top10) I don't think we are much worse physically than any other team, we in fact have a number of physical beasts.

The issue is management, club culture, tactics, direction etc. It is a choice to play Busquets for 90 minutes every game and not a necessity of Barca as you make it sound. Nor are all our players limp noodles who can't run half a mile. You should write more about tactics and management.

Also, you don't even understand the physicality you write about. You include Gavi when he consistently runs like 14km a game, his stamina and endurance for a 17 year old is incredible & there are plenty of players,top, in that mould. Think Veratti, Kante etc.

 

[Messi983]

And then you need to surround them with physical/faster/combative players.
Only at Barca you'll see a combo of Busi, Gavi, Pedri, Torres playing together. Fc Turtleona 1899.

Gavi is one of the most combative young players you'll see. Pedri is a workhorse too and playing inteligently/mature way beyond his years. They're not fast but they're not exactly slow either, especially Gavi. Only problem in midfield is granny Busi playing 99% of minutes. He's the one who needs to be protected (and even that's not enough) by younger/faster/more physical players. Pedri or Gavi don't need that.

Also, regarding Barca DNA, can you name one 1st division club in the world who would keep a player of Puig's physique and skills?
Not only that we have kept him for 3-4 years around the first team, but Riki gained an enormous army of fans and followers.
Insane.

It often feels as if there are:
1. the real world
2. and then "a planet Barca" where Barca's fans, socios, the board, papers live. Where totally different rules and logic apply.

I am not saying that all of our fans are crazy.
But a huge majority are suffering from Barca-DNA delusion sickness in a smaller or larger amounts.

Not even sure why you're mentioning Mavericky. He's just a waste of a roster spot, no coach has rated him.

Yeah, he has his cult of followers which I can't understand but they are as irrelevant as he is for this team.

 

[DonAK]

Next season is going to be really important for him. Will have a full pre-season and cannot be any excuses about his injury at City either.

He simply has to do better. For our sake and his own as well. If he has a bad or average season you'll have to start questioning if he should be sold if we get any decent offers.

 

[Iniesta Ultra]

Next season is going to be really important for him. Will have a full pre-season and cannot be any excuses about his injury at City either.

He simply has to do better. For our sake and his own as well. If he has a bad or average season you'll have to start questioning if he should be sold if we get any decent offers.

Xavi will only stop playing him after his market value drops to $20M.

 

[serghei]

Next season is going to be really important for him. Will have a full pre-season and cannot be any excuses about his injury at City either.

He simply has to do better. For our sake and his own as well. If he has a bad or average season you'll have to start questioning if he should be sold if we get any decent offers.

He has to.

IMO he's the biggest potential roadblock in our rebuild so far. We simply can't afford good-money signings to not perform well.

 

[Iniesta Ultra]

He has to.

IMO he's the biggest potential roadblock in our rebuild so far. We simply can't afford good-money signings to not perform well.

Imagine if he played the same for City like he has past couple months, Pep wouldn't tolerate that more than a couple weeks. No wonder he 'helped' us with payment structure lmao.

 

[iniestaGOAT]

Imagine if he played the same for City like he has past couple months, Pep wouldn't tolerate that more than a couple weeks. No wonder he 'helped' us with payment structure lmao.

Pep has all the money in the world to buy whoever he wants to replace him unfortunately we can't

 

[Iniesta Ultra]

Pep has all the money in the world to buy whoever he wants to replace him unfortunately we can't

Torres balanced out his Grealish investment.

 

[iniestaGOAT]

Torres balanced out his Grealish investment.

They don't need to balance out anything.

Grealish fails, his replacement fails he will buy somebody else

 

[JamDav1982]

Torres balanced out his Grealish investment.

Not even close.

They made about 35m profit on Torres and Grealish cost 100m.

 

[Messigician]

Not even close.

They made about 35m profit on Torres and Grealish cost 100m.

Who said it's like for like?

Grealish is an upgrade and only cost 40m more than Torres with the English tax

 

[Horatio]

He will likely get better next season because simply put finishing can't be worse than what it is now.

 

[Iniesta Ultra]

He will likely get better next season because simply put finishing can't be worse than what it is now.

Not necessarily true, he could reach Dembele's level of finishing.