Total-Football
Senior Member
disappointed in him.. no troll ?
3 - Gerard Pique
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
Leo_Messi
New member
Sorry, no offense, but I can't take this post seriously. To claim that Piqué has never shown a high level consistently throughout a season has to be a joke or that somehow VVD with 1 elite season behind him at the age of 27 (with nothing to show for it) is somehow lightyears ahead of Piqué at his best. Not even right now when Piqué is 32 and VVD in his prime is the difference substantial. Let alone as big as you want to make it.
Yes, Ramos has bailed RM out quite a few times (mainly in the CL) but throughout his 14 year long RM career he has had as many brain farts if not more. For the first 8 years of his RM career he was nowhere to be seen "leadership" wise as well.
I get it, you expected some kind of reincarnation of Puyol and Beckenbauer from Piqué but you can't take anything away from his achievements or the fact that he has belonged to the elite for 10+ years now. An in-form Piqué will be absolutely crucial for our CL hopes this season as well. As he was whenever we won it the last 3 times. As he has been in almost every top game be it against RM or other teams in recent years notwithstanding bad performances in such games like ANY other player regardless of level, position etc. Even Messi had several "shocking" performances in elite games. As did C. Ronaldo. As did Ramos and everyone else.
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FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
Do you know the saying beating the dead horse? Let's just enjoy this in peace.
(BTW, we still need to beat Lyon first, before saying anything..)
But its true. Pique hasnt performed one season since post-puyol-era (2012), without a serious dip in form. And the reason he played more consistently with Puyol despite being a younger, less good player and newer to the team, was because he played for 1) a real good team with great chemistry all around shadowing some of his flaws and even more because of nr 2) = Puyol. (maybe 3) Pep) Who never let players slack it off, espically not his CB-partner. Once Mascherano took more leadership and got accustuamted to his CB position, Pique also played better, because Mascherano then took somewhat responsebility like Puyol. Its not just about leadership, there are lots of players who are no leaders and make other people perform better, but can still perform consistently well without having someone to keep your spirit high, but Pique has for most of his career depended on someone to keep him focused. I still remember the fans serious talking about buying a new starting CB in his worst periods, and there have been a few, and that was in his mid-end-twenties, what should be his peak. And you can downtalk these mental traits (and to some extend phsyical) as much as you want, but the true greats imo have all in common that they can play good no matter what. Puyol and Ramos are that kind of players, and Pique is imo more talented than Puyol and on same level as Ramos, but his mentality has been lacking. Now in the autumn of his career - older and wiser - he has shown what it could have been like if he was more serious with his football.
A player talking about being president before he was 30, and with his exceptonal football talent, and in this era of barca, should imo have shown more spirit for his sake and for barcas sake. So yes, i was disappointed, because I had great expectations for him (the club did as well) and he hasn't lived up to them. I dont want to take anything away from what he has achieved, and i rate him as top 10 CB in his period - as previous stated - but thats it, he isnt top 5 and he is certainly below Ramos. Ramos has had some mayor fuck ups, but do remember that most of his redcars werent at decicive moments. His goals in big matches, his way to make the whole team play better - thats what truly puts him apart. Look at a guy like Varane - amazing talent, but no ramos, and he crumbles.
And Vvd is the same. I know that Pique is greater talent, the better career, and ofc I dont disagree with saying him being the better player. But its also true, that Vvd the last two years has played on a consistent high level i havent seen Pique on. leadership and the quality to make his teammates better. While also having no weaknesses. Also Pique has benefited a lot playing in La Liga which suits him way better than PL, and while Pique is better in La liga football, Vvd wouldnt be exposed as much in la liga, because he has it all, just a worse technical ability than Pique. Also Pique has played for a way better teams than Vvd ever has. Last - Pique has been blessed to play for the Pep team, if he stayed at United or english football he wouldnt have had the same career, and wouldnt be considered as good as he is now.
Anyway, can Pique perform like now more or less till his contract runs out, he has imo make it up - at least for me. No matter what he will be remembered as a great player, and when we talk about legends of Barca, he will be one of them. Its just a shame he hasnt lived up to his potential.
See me blabbering, in my bad english - I hope you understand my thoughts as they were ment.
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KingLeo10
Senior Member
pique was a colossus from jan - june 2015. people forget that team had two ultra attacking fullbacks in alves and alba, a terrifying front 3 but one which never defended substantially.
and pique's partner was an aging mascherano.
and yet we beat atletico 4 times, real, city x 2, PSG x 3, bayern, and juve that season. most all of which are physical teams with a bevy of 6 + footer forwards and defenders (on set pieces).
and pique's partner was an aging mascherano.
and yet we beat atletico 4 times, real, city x 2, PSG x 3, bayern, and juve that season. most all of which are physical teams with a bevy of 6 + footer forwards and defenders (on set pieces).
Its not like i forgot his periods being were he was playing like the world best CB, but he hasnt done it consistently enough. I know i have put my in the position as the devil advocate, but my point all a long was Pique being a legend but he is not on the same shelf as Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, and imo he had all the tools and cirumstances to be there, and thats a shame.
Leo_messi, I forgot, in regard to Ramos only being a leader for 8 (!!) years, before that he was still good in big matches and pretty consistent. And the big difference is, he stepped up when the team needed him to after several big names left the club - Pique didnt, on few periods, yes, but all in all, he disappointed in this area.
Leo_messi, I forgot, in regard to Ramos only being a leader for 8 (!!) years, before that he was still good in big matches and pretty consistent. And the big difference is, he stepped up when the team needed him to after several big names left the club - Pique didnt, on few periods, yes, but all in all, he disappointed in this area.
Leo_Messi
New member
Disagree with the notion of Piqué having many dips if any serious ones (long-standing other than some bad games here and there like any other player) in the seasons that I talked about.
Look, individual players, even elite ones, don't perform in a vacuum. They perform (automatically) better if part of a collective that works. This is no different in cooperations or in every sphere of life where groups of people are interacting. Same with playing with other great players. Great players make each other better or usually tend to. While bad players drag good players down and each other down.
I am not down talking any traits. Already admitted to Piqué not being a leader in the mould of Puyol or even Mascherano. However he never needed to be one so I don't see it as a problem. He has other attributes and not every CB, even elite ones, need to be or were leaders. I also disagree with Piqué having not had any leadership abilities. He certainly has.
I already wrote about Piqué the person. He is eccentric. Talks his mind. Which is what makes him unique and well-liked and what makes him controversial and disliked by some at the same time. There was also the moronic "La decisión" with Griezmann last summer.
Disagree. Ramos has fucked up countless of times in crucial moments (never recall a player having fucked up more in El Clásico history for staters, the most important game in club football and a game that has decided numerous league titles and quite a few CdR games, even CL games) since 2005. As well as in the CL between 2005 and 2013. Even post 2013 Ramos has had quite a few fuckups that ended up not mattering because of RM's ability to somehow survive being down and in a low and having the required luck, marginals etc.
As for VVD. I disagree that he has been (for 2 years) on a better and more consistent level than Piqué at his best.
Anyway no worries. Your English is not bad and it is not like I am a native speaker despite the at times long posts. English is my fourth language.
Lastly I get what you are saying about Piqué. Basically it is about him having had the talent and potential to be even better and more dedicated. That I already agreed with but that is one thing. Another thing is what I consider a fact which is that Piqué, regardless of any criticism, has been our best CB (in the past 10 year period overall) and one of the very best in the world and of his generation (all-time great in fact) based on almost every measurement possible.
What is maybe more crucial he seems to have picked up a very, very high level here at this crucial part of the season and in his autumn as a player given that he has turned 32 and might have, at most, 2-3 season left in him at this level.
Cheers.
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I tried to find some data to support my claim, but finding statistics is a pain in the ass, so i dropped it pretty quickly. Let just agree, to disagree then.
Cant disagree with that claim as a general rule of social behaviour. But there are people who depend a lot on others and people who depend less on other people.
In my book Pique needed to take responsebility. Either you evolve as a player or you dont, and Pique was the obvious one to take responsebility - not Mascherano - and just because Masch did it, doesnt mean Pique shouldnt have. As said there was the season we conceded 40 goals, and 30-something the following one. As older you get - espcially as a core player who wants to be mentioned as one of the best - its expected to take responsebilities when its time, and Pique didnt grab it. Then are players like Messi who arent leaders (and see how much howl he gets fot that) but make for it by brilliant play - and imo Pique hasnt really done that to big enough extend. If you applaud a player for taking responsebility, and its also obvious you need to take into consideration the players who dont if you want to make a analyse about how good those certain players are. Ramos did, Mascherano did (also abig reason why he will be remembered as a great player for us). And again its not just about leadership, but it just as much about being a player who the younger and newer players can depend on (but yea thats the first point where we also disagree about Piques swinging performances post Pep/puyol/2012).
He has developed some leadership, but wasnt even a top 4 captain before this season (iirc). Says a lot. And his leadership was most obvious when playing derbies and madrid, thats fine and all, but leadership needs to be consistent.
excentric isnt the fitting word, but i get what you mean. Still dont know what he was thinking with this video-making, but then again most have been pretty fun to make a video like that.
I dont watch all matches, and there are a lot of matches to take into consideration. But his fuck-up's arent really worth mentioning imo. And has really fucked up that badly in ChL - all those red cards where often in the last minutes because of frustration and real would have lost anyway. The ones who are lucky, are the ones who seek it - a danish saying.
Haha thanks, english is my third. Where you from anyway? Edit: Nvm, can see its spain
nice having some locals around.
But yeah lets just close this case. Maybe at some point when i feel like putting the time and effort in it, I will provide you with some stats to underline how swinging his performances have been.
Cant disagree with that claim as a general rule of social behaviour. But there are people who depend a lot on others and people who depend less on other people.
In my book Pique needed to take responsebility. Either you evolve as a player or you dont, and Pique was the obvious one to take responsebility - not Mascherano - and just because Masch did it, doesnt mean Pique shouldnt have. As said there was the season we conceded 40 goals, and 30-something the following one. As older you get - espcially as a core player who wants to be mentioned as one of the best - its expected to take responsebilities when its time, and Pique didnt grab it. Then are players like Messi who arent leaders (and see how much howl he gets fot that) but make for it by brilliant play - and imo Pique hasnt really done that to big enough extend. If you applaud a player for taking responsebility, and its also obvious you need to take into consideration the players who dont if you want to make a analyse about how good those certain players are. Ramos did, Mascherano did (also abig reason why he will be remembered as a great player for us). And again its not just about leadership, but it just as much about being a player who the younger and newer players can depend on (but yea thats the first point where we also disagree about Piques swinging performances post Pep/puyol/2012).
He has developed some leadership, but wasnt even a top 4 captain before this season (iirc). Says a lot. And his leadership was most obvious when playing derbies and madrid, thats fine and all, but leadership needs to be consistent.
excentric isnt the fitting word, but i get what you mean. Still dont know what he was thinking with this video-making, but then again most have been pretty fun to make a video like that.
I dont watch all matches, and there are a lot of matches to take into consideration. But his fuck-up's arent really worth mentioning imo. And has really fucked up that badly in ChL - all those red cards where often in the last minutes because of frustration and real would have lost anyway. The ones who are lucky, are the ones who seek it - a danish saying.
Haha thanks, english is my third. Where you from anyway? Edit: Nvm, can see its spain
nice having some locals around. But yeah lets just close this case. Maybe at some point when i feel like putting the time and effort in it, I will provide you with some stats to underline how swinging his performances have been.
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EdmondDantes
New member
Colossus was at it again yesterday. Great goal.
FCB1987
Banned
Respect to this man. So many encounters against CR7, I can barely remember CR7 getting a header against him/us. Just the copa final, no?
That's because we never sat 10 players outside our box and tried to defend crosses for 90 minutes
tacticvarium
New member
Gotta just love this guy.
Amazing player!
Amazing player!
CatalinR10
Senior Member
great game again
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