21 - Frenkie de Jong

[ajnotkeith]

The spreadsheet football fans, evaluating Busquets, a defensive midfielder, through his assist stats.

Holy shit

It was a comment to someone saying he had a better chance creation and final ball than FdJ.

You should read the context behind people's responses before you comment. The dumbest people are always bad faith debaters.

 

[JamDav1982]

The spreadsheet football fans, evaluating Busquets, a defensive midfielder, through his assist stats.

Holy shit

Not what was being argued.

Almost a throw away comment against this idea he has been brilliant on ball creatively.

Spreadsheet fans would be more apt to those that think Busi is strong defensively due to his stats and not wacthing how plays the game.

 

[vegitot]

No...he is set up to be the one who gets on ball for Xavi and other positioned to offer him options and as already said he charges about out of position sometimes winning ball and other times leaving huge gaps.

Watch him. Constantly leaves defence exposed v teams on the break.

FDJ has never been at DM in those defeats and had to play alongside dinosaurs like Busquets... before he played alongside Busquets? Voted best midfielder in Europe.

Can repeat for third time... no one is saying FDJ has to be played as a single DM or recreate Busis role anyway.

Although preferred FDJ at DM in 3-1 win v Celta than any of Busis performances lately in the four of five home defeats.

Lucho never had FDJ and when arguing Xavis is wrong not much an argument just to bring his name up as someone who prefers Busquets when that is whole argument.

Well dont to Koeman and Xavi with their CL hidings... certainly proven correct...

Frenkie doesn't play a lone DM at Ajax. And what about Tottenham's win at Ajax's home???

Saying Frenkie's award before he playing here is quite silly. Busquets plays much better Euro than Frenkie when he has same Pedri alongside. But let's discuss this elsewhere.

Lucho doesn't have Frenkie but Rodri.

Both Koeman and Xavi do the samething. Sure they know more.

And back to what you post earlier, Xavi sets up midfield for Busquets rather than Frenkie because Busquets shows that he is better at running the midfield.

 

[vegitot]

EDIT : 1 assist. Came in the CdR.

Ini always gave plenty of assists tho, he even had one league season with like 20 IIRC.

Busquets doesn't really have a final ball or good chance creation if he's playing nearly 5k minutes and can only produce one assist.

Iniesta had 16 assists in 2012/13 season. But he went through a year without scoring/assisting in Liga (2014 to 2015).

 

[Laplacian]

It was a comment to someone saying he had a better chance creation and final ball than FdJ.

You should read the context behind people's responses before you comment. The dumbest people are always bad faith debaters.

And you're evaluating that based on his assist stats, completely unaware that positionally speaking Busquets doesn't have the opportunity to produce final balls. Considering he's an anchor.

de Jong is a mobile player with the license to constantly roam forward into and inside the box, which is why his 'final ball stats' are higher than Busquets.

That's not to say though that makes de Jong a more creative player than Busquets.

But you wouldn't know that considering that's how you evaluate players: through assist numbers.



Keep thinking you're smart buddy.

 

[JamDav1982]

And you're evaluating that based on his assist stats, completely unaware that positionally speaking Busquets doesn't have the opportunity to produce final balls. Considering he's an anchor.

de Jong is a mobile player with the license to constantly roam forward into and inside the box, which is why his 'final ball stats' are higher than Busquets.

That's not to say though that makes de Jong a more creative player than Busquets.

But you wouldn't know that considering that's how you evaluate players: through assist numbers.



Keep thinking you're smart buddy.

You are doubling down on a point that wasnt made.

 

[vegitot]

It was a comment to someone saying he had a better chance creation and final ball than FdJ.

You should read the context behind people's responses before you comment. The dumbest people are always bad faith debaters.

It's true that Busquets involves in much more attacking sequences (shots + chances created + build up to shot), open play chances + secondary chances created than Frenkie. More assists don't mean anything. Or Iniesta was one of the poorest midfielder.

Luckily now that company like Opta can analyze much deeper stats to help us understand better.

 

[JamDav1982]

Frenkie doesn't play a lone DM at Ajax. And what about Tottenham's win at Ajax's home???

Saying Frenkie's award before he playing here is quite silly. Busquets plays much better Euro than Frenkie when he has same Pedri alongside. But let's discuss this elsewhere.

Lucho doesn't have Frenkie but Rodri.

Both Koeman and Xavi do the samething. Sure they know more.

And back to what you post earlier, Xavi sets up midfield for Busquets rather than Frenkie because Busquets shows that he is better at running the midfield.

Jeepers... how many times? No one is saying Barca have to try and replicate Busis role as sole DM for FDJ to play... but when he has played there not been any worse than Busi and Celta game evidence of it.

No Frenkies award before he arrived is not 'silly' it is showing level he can play at when system suits him. While system built for Buaquets he has been nothing but humilaited year after year.

Again.. it is poor argument to say 'coaches know best' and wont ever be applied to all arguments.

No Xavi sets it up for Busquets as he thinks Busquets is best DM in world bizarrely and back to same point of it is not some top trumps argument just beacuse current coach prefers a certain player.

Play Busquets as sole DM and get more of same next season and folk will still cry about a unique skill set.

Four home defeats in five with Busquets barely able to move and being targetted by teams in the break and being left on ball. Just ignore all that and claim he is great because Xavi picks him.

 

[JamDav1982]

It's true that Busquets involves in much more attacking sequences (shots + chances created + build up to shot), open play chances + secondary chances created than Frenkie. More assists don't mean anything. Or Iniesta was one of the poorest midfielder.

Luckily now that company like Opta can analyze much deeper stats to help us understand better.

Again... that is what can happen when Busquets is the player aim to get ball on and others are positioned in areas to recieve ball from him to try and open game up.

You keep repeating same things.

Four defeats in five with the great Busi dictating things from DM..working a treat. Failling to score v Cadiz, Rayo and Villareal at home.

The centre of park is fialing badly to control game and open it up in reality while nealry anything coming from wide.

You think Opta shows Busi is strong defensively as makes tackles.. it doesnt and he cant keep up and is being slaughtered by teams on break year after year and again this season.

 

[vegitot]

Again... that is what can happen when Busquets is the player aim to get ball on and others are positioned in areas to recieve ball from him to try and open game up.

You keep repeating same things.

Four defeats in five with the great Busi dictating things from DM..working a treat. Failling to score v Cadiz, Rayo and Villareal at home.

The centre of park is fialing badly to control game and open it up in reality while nealry anything coming from wide.

You think Opta shows Busi is strong defensively as makes tackles.. it doesnt and he cant keep up and is being slaughtered by teams on break year after year and again this season.

I already posted it above. Of course Xavi sets up for Busquets but Busquets also shows what he is capable of. Frenkie doesn't.

What Opta sees (or Xavi or Koeman...) is Busquets can invole in many of Barca's passing moves and can win possesion for the team. They don't see that from Frenkie.

 

[vegitot]

Jeepers... how many times? No one is saying Barca have to try and replicate Busis role as sole DM for FDJ to play... but when he has played there not been any worse than Busi and Celta game evidence of it.

No Frenkies award before he arrived is not 'silly' it is showing level he can play at when system suits him. While system built for Buaquets he has been nothing but humilaited year after year.

Again.. it is poor argument to say 'coaches know best' and wont ever be applied to all arguments.

No Xavi sets it up for Busquets as he thinks Busquets is best DM in world bizarrely and back to same point of it is not some top trumps argument just beacuse current coach prefers a certain player.

Play Busquets as sole DM and get more of same next season and folk will still cry about a unique skill set.

Four home defeats in five with Busquets barely able to move and being targetted by teams in the break and being left on ball. Just ignore all that and claim he is great because Xavi picks him.

Saying Frenkie at DM (barely play) isn't worse than Busquets is not true. Too small sample. Like saying Mavericky is brillant like Bobo claims lol.

Last season Koeman did try double pivot for Frenkie and it was terrible.

 

[JamDav1982]

I already posted it above. Of course Xavi sets up for Busquets but Busquets also shows what he is capable of. Frenkie doesn't.

What Opta sees (or Xavi or Koeman...) is Busquets can invole in many of Barca's passing moves and can win possesion for the team. They don't see that from Frenkie.

If too small a sample then you cant argue Busi is better if that is the stance. So works both ways.

Busquets is showing what he is 'capable of' which is the point.. not much and as usual being over run and dragged out of position.

FDJ played DM twice this season and won both. He played there recently when beat Celta 3-1 and was Barcas best player...in amongst a run of four home defeats out of five for Barca where 'creaitve hub' Busi was terrible and Barca failed to score v likes of Cadiz, Rayo and Villareal.

Again for fourth time.. no one is saying Xavi is right to try and play the Busi lone DM role but saying he has 'shown' what he can do there is laughable. What exactly is he showing?

Nope again winning possesion doesnt matter if leaving huge gaps and exposing defence to do it. Which Busquets does time and again chasing ball out of position and gets exposed for it as many recent hammerings show.

There is not a single top team in world that would choose current Bsuquets ability over FDJ in their midifeld.

There appears to be no limit to how bad Busquets has to be before some will admit he is not the player made out.

 

[vegitot]

Busquets is showing what he is 'capable of' which is the point.. not much and as usual being over run and dragged out of position.

FDJ played DM twice this season and won both. He played there recently when beat Celta 3-1 and was Barcas best player...in amongst a run of four home defeats in row for Barca where 'creaitve hub' Busi was terrible and Barca failed to score v likes of Cadiz, Rayo and Villareal.

Again for fourth time.. no one is saying Xavi is right to try and play the Busi lone DM role but saying he has 'shown' what he can do there is laughable. What exactly is he showing?

Nope again winning possesion doesnt matter if leaving huge gaps and exposing defence to do it. Which Busquets does time and again chasing ball out of position and gets exposed for it as many recent hammerings show.

There is not a single top team in world that would choose current Bsuquets ability over FDJ in their midifeld.

Busquets is involved in a league-high 135 sequences leading to an open play shot this season, 18 of which led to a goal, another league-high, also 196 possesion wins, 13 of those lead to a shot on goal (2nd in league).

He shows that he can involve Barca's passing game and can win possesion. That's enough for Xavi. And we have enough data to back up Xavi (or Koeman or any Barca coach).

You use such small sample for Frenkie. We only compare Busquets to Frenkie until he plays consistently as a DM.

The last sentence is your speculation. Maybe other top teams will buy Frenkie instead of Busquets. But will they play Frenkie as a lone DM??? Ten Hag has his answer.

 

[JamDav1982]

Busquets is involved in a league-high 135 sequences leading to an open play shot this season, 18 of which led to a goal, another league-high, also 196 possesion wins, 13 of those lead to a shot on goal (2nd in league).

He shows that he can involve Barca's passing game and can win possesion. That's enough for Xavi. And we have enough data to back up Xavi (or Koeman or any Barca coach).

You use such small sample for Frenkie. We only compare Busquets to Frenkie until he plays consistently as a DM.

The last sentence is your speculation. Maybe other top teams will buy Frenkie instead of Busquets. But will they play Frenkie as a lone DM??? Ten Hag has his answer.

Again... Busi is the one the team is set up to get ball to so not surprising those stats. The more important aspect is how this improves the team.

The creative hub Busi at DM with Barca losing four of last five home games failing to score in three of them.

Again.. wins of posession been discussed to death.. he tries to close and tackle anything that moves which results in tackles and also huge gaps on front of defence.

Again.. if use small sample argument you cant claim Busi is better as sample too small. Works both ways.

Ten Hag never claimed Busi is better DM than FDJ so speculation and Ten Hag agrees with what has already been said... it is not FDJs best position but doesnt mean coaches like Ten Hag would pick Busi ahead of him even in a lone DM role.

Again... Barca dont have to play a sole DM role with other two mids up park and inbetween lines.

Xavis style has been more or less to give up midfield domination of ball and top open game up through over loads and freedom to move and makes things happen.

 

[vegitot]

Again... Busi is the one the team is set up to get ball to so not surprising those stats. The more important aspect is how this improves the team.

Again.. wins of posession been discussed to death.. he tries to close and tackle anything that moves which results in tackles and also huge gaps on front of defence.

Again.. if use small sample argument you cant claim Busi is better as sample too small. Works both ways.

Ten Hag never claimed Busi is better DM than FDJ so speculation and Ten Hag agrees with what has already been said... it is not FDJs best position but doesnt mean coaches like Ten Hag would pick Busi ahead of him even in a lone DM role.

You need to read what i posg above to know what Busquets brings. Those stats aren't meaningless.

Busquets always plays as a DM. How is that even a small sample??? Frenkie who plays like once or twice, that is a small sample.

Ten Hag doesn't say anthing about Busquets v Frenkie but he said Frenkie isn't a lone DM. So it's pretty obvious.

Edit: You are right that Barca don't have to play just one DM. But now there is no better way. Busquets is still Xavi's best (or Koeman before).