14 - João Félix

[Riordon]

Another one today

 

[FC433]

Cannot see him leaving for less than his release clause 120m.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Sure, if he will be great in CL and score a lot of goals next season, while leading his team to the semifinal, he could cost that. Until then, he is a talent in a weaker league who hasn't proven anything at the highest level.

100m. is absurd. No way should he cost more than Vinicius did for example. 40-50m. at this point. Anything else would be a higher gamble than De Ligt or De Jong, who already proved with Nederlands that they can keep their own vs the best teams.

I am sorry, but in what world is De Jong a proven player?
How many games against top teams did he play? Germany/France/Bayern? and he performed well like 3 times at those while 2/3 of them in semi-friendlies while the whole NT as players looked way better than their actual talent? All while he is playing in inferior league?
Are you sure we can put the word "proven" with him in any way? or that he would have gone for less if his performance was average?

Same price as Vinicius come on man, the next Vinicius didn't cost RM the same price of Vinicius
We paid 40M -prior to Neymar/Mbappe market inflation- for an almost 24 years old RB who had only 1 full season of 1st team football in same team who was as proven as Felix and you think a guy who is scoring or assisting every game at that young age will cost the same?
Is it a gamble? sure, but same was FDJ, same will be De Ligt. Same was Dembele. When you are paying for youth it is a gamble, and currently it is a gamble teams must take on regular basis

 

[serghei]

I am sorry, but in what world is De Jong a proven player?
How many games against top teams did he play? Germany/France/Bayern? and he performed well like 3 times at those while 2/3 of them in semi-friendlies while the whole NT as players looked way better than their actual talent? All while he is playing in inferior league?
Are you sure we can put the word "proven" with him in any way? or that he would have gone for less if his performance was average?

Same price as Vinicius come on man, the next Vinicius didn't cost RM the same price of Vinicius
We paid 40M -prior to Neymar/Mbappe market inflation- for an almost 24 years old RB who had only 1 full season of 1st team football in same team who was as proven as Felix and you think a guy who is scoring or assisting every game at that young age will cost the same?
Is it a gamble? sure, but same was FDJ, same will be De Ligt. Same was Dembele. When you are paying for youth it is a gamble, and currently it is a gamble teams must take on regular basis

Ok. Not proven proven, but clearly more proven than this guy from Benfica. Which is the point.

No, guys like Vinicius with zero experience at big level and not nearly the talent of Neymar won't cost 100m now, or if they do we should stay away from them. Malcom didn't cost us 100m did he, although he was very highly rated in Ligue 1? De Jong appears to be a generational talent btw, is already a starter in a Nederlands NT who are in the semifinals of the Nations League, with De Jong and De Ligt as main players for them. Also a player coming from a school like Barca's La Masia. The signs for De Jong are all positive, the only thing which is somewhat unknown is whether he will be 'only' a very good player, or a great one. The risk of signing De Jong and him ending up like Gomes is ultra low.

There are different levels of gambles. Dembele for example was a gamble too, but also already being proven for his age, being the best player at Dortmund, a top team in Germany. Lead them to a Cup win. If this Felix from Benfica is supposed to cost close to Dembele, he'll need do show great things at Benfica. Let's see him against a good side in Europa League this season and CL the next season.

 

[Porque]

Love the way he strikes the ball. Theres a Messi-esque ease to it.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Ok. Not proven proven, but clearly more proven than this guy from Benfica. Which is the point.

No, guys like Vinicius with zero experience at big level and not nearly the talent of Neymar won't cost 100m now, or if they do we should stay away from them. Malcom didn't cost us 100m did he, although he was very highly rated in Ligue 1? De Jong appears to be a generational talent btw, is already a starter in a Nederlands NT who are in the semifinals of the Nations League, with De Jong and De Ligt as main players for them. Also a player coming from a school like Barca's La Masia. The signs for De Jong are all positive, the only thing which is somewhat unknown is whether he will be 'only' a very good player, or a great one. The risk of signing De Jong and him ending up like Gomes is ultra low.

There are different levels of gambles. Dembele for example was a gamble too, but also already being proven for his age, being the best player at Dortmund, a top team in Germany. Lead them to a Cup win. If this Felix from Benfica is supposed to cost close to Dembele, he'll need do show great things at Benfica. Let's see him against a good side in Europa League this season and CL the next season.

Dude, Rodrygo cost RM around 60M at younger age and being way less proven than Felix right now. Same case as Vinicius
Malcom isn't same talent as Felix, probably not even close and didn't have any other top club competing for him, that is why we got him,. That is why he isn't a good comparison for this analogy.
And no, FDJ isn't really more proven than Felix, couple of good games against mediocre Bayern or NT semi friendlies doesn't qualify to make a 21 years old player from Eredivisie more proven. Not when he played less than a year in midfield which is the position we bought him for.
FDJ wasn't worth more than 50M at most, yet he cost us 75-86M, huge gamble that will pay off if he works well. But if he failed ,which there is legit chance he will it will be huge money flushed into toilets. An we took the gamble when we had Arthur playing same position to ease things for us, we don't have any young goal scorer at the moment, Suarez is probably still our 2nd best goal scorer as Dembele is so inconsistent to rely on him on that regard

Same thing for Felix, he looks like the most sure thing out there for a young striker who can lead our attack, fits our profile and timeline perfectly. We have missed on Mbappe already because he was out of our price ability but when we are now desperate for attacking reinforcement we can't be cheap and refuse to take the gamble.

 

[serghei]

Dude, Rodrygo cost RM around 60M at younger age and being way less proven than Felix right now. Same case as Vinicius
Malcom isn't same talent as Felix, probably not even close and didn't have any other top club competing for him, that is why we got him,. That is why he isn't a good comparison for this analogy.
And no, FDJ isn't really more proven than Felix, couple of good games against mediocre Bayern or NT semi friendlies doesn't qualify to make a 21 years old player from Eredivisie more proven. Not when he played less than a year in midfield which is the position we bought him for.
FDJ wasn't worth more than 50M at most, yet he cost us 75-86M, huge gamble that will pay off if he works well. But if he failed ,which there is legit chance he will it will be huge money flushed into toilets.

Same thing for Felix, he looks like the most sure thing out there for a young striker who can lead our attack, fits our profile and timeline perfectly. We have missed on Mbappe already because he was out of our price ability but when we are now desperate for attacking reinforcement we can't be cheap and refuse to take the gamble.

And Rodrygo will probably be a big bust for them.

FdJ is more proven than Felix. He had some good performances in CL vs big teams. Never even seen Felix in a big game in Europe yet. Is he even a regular with Portugal NT? Frenkie is and Nederland had some great results lately, including beating the World Cup winners, in a game De Jong played great in. This alone makes him more proven than Felix. Didn't Griezmann, one of the world's best forwards praised De Jong as one of the players we had a difficult time pressing? That sort of confirmation from the most trusted sources are the best and the sort of thing you expect with highly prized targets.

Objectively, De Jong is a higher rated, more proven player than Felix. Even if he is not a sure thing either. There's no way Felix should cost more than Frenkie de Jong. No fucking way. Until he shows some great things against big teams in high profile games. Like De Jong did.

 

[khaled_a_d]

And Rodrygo will probably be a big bust for them.

FdJ is more proven than Felix. He had some good performances in CL vs big teams. Never even seen Felix in a big game in Europe yet. Is he even a regular with Portugal NT? Frenkie is and Nederland had some great results lately, including beating the World Cup winners, in a game De Jong played great in. This alone makes him more proven than Felix.

3 or 4 more good games doesn't make a player more proven for me, at all. May be for De Ligt as he was part of the team that played in EL final but not for FDJ

And Rodrygo will probably be a big bust for them.

People same thing for Vinicius and looks like a Bargain deal for 40M

Objectively, De Jong is a higher rated, more proven player than Felix. Even if he is not a sure thing either. There's no way Felix should cost more than Frenkie de Jong. No fucking way. Until he shows some great things against big teams in high profile games. Like De Jong did.

Market for young attackers are way different than that of midfielders, so yes objectively it will be normal to see Felix costing teams more than FDJ, it is his current market value

 

[serghei]

3 or 4 more good games doesn't make a player more proven for me, at all. May be for De Ligt as he was part of the team that played in EL final but not for FDJ

For me they do. 3-4 games is enough to spot something special in a player. Usually, the players who play very well right from the get go in big games, will do so after they get more experience too, even more so. Of course exceptions can happen, which is why De Jong is not a sure success.

Many world class teams were in for De Jong too. Very rarely it happens when the player is not great. Another sign. It's early with this Felix kid. You can't pay 100m. just like that on a wild bet. Many players who did great in Portugal failed at big teams.

 

[serghei]

Market for young attackers are way different than that of midfielders, so yes objectively it will be normal to see Felix costing teams more than FDJ, it is his current market value

Not necessarily. Pogba was a world record fee. And he's a midfielder. De Jong is a midfielder. Midfielders cost just as much as forwards now, the differences appear when somebody like Mbappe shows up, who displays extraordinary stuff for a 19 year old. Is this Felix at the level of Mbappe? No.

How much did City pay for Jesus? 33m in 2017. Jesus was very highly rated too.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Not necessarily. Pogba was a world record fee. And he's a midfielder. De Jong is a midfielder. Midfielders cost just as much as forwards now, the differences appear when somebody like Mbappe shows up, who displays extraordinary stuff for a 19 year old. Is this Felix at the level of Mbappe? No.

How much did City pay for Jesus? 33m in 2017. Jesus was very highly rated too.

Jesus deal was done in 2016
And Pogba was only midfielder to hold the record since 2009 and it lasted only 1 year, he is also closer to AM while FDJ actually played his whole career as CB/DM when we made the deal
So no, midfielders costs more this days, but not as a promising attacker.
You can check it yourself:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_association_football_transfers
Pogba is only midfielder in top 10, if FDJ cost us only 5 of the 11 add-ons (most likely case in most of our deals) he is 2nd most expensive midfielder in history. Though you might make an argument that Coutinho might qualify as midfielder
Not sure really he proved anything to make him 2nd most expensive midfielder in history, but it is outrageous to look for most promising attacker in the market

Not sure why you keep mentioning players from Brazilian league btw, I thought you car of players being more proven. I mean sure it is probably stronger than Dutch league but not by any mean stronger than Portuguese league.

 

[serghei]

Not sure why you keep mentioning players from Brazilian league btw, I thought you car of players being more proven. I mean sure it is probably stronger than Dutch league but not by any mean stronger than Portuguese league.

I just want to see this Felix in some high profile games. Does he even have one game like that where he played very well in?

Brazilian league is about the same level as Portugal Superliga. And De Jong didn't play many games outside Dutch league, but the ones he played were against serious teams and he was very good usually. Felix should be closely monitored in those kind of games. Getting players strictly based on their performances in Portugal and paying 100m. is not a good idea imo.

 

[Porque]

I just want to see this Felix in some high profile games. Does he even have one game like that where he played very well in?

Brazilian league is about the same level as Portugal Superliga. And De Jong didn't play many games outside Dutch league, but the ones he played were against serious teams and he was very good usually. Felix should be closely monitored in those kind of games. Getting players strictly based on their performances in Portugal and paying 100m. is not a good idea imo.

Away vs. Porto?

 

[Jombi]

Big question mark is whether Felix can play alone up front as a striker. Thats not a position he has played so far, but who knows. It adds to the risk.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Linked to Manchester United and Juventus, not to us.