10 - Lionel Messi - v5

[vlad]

Ebc_99

But barca was struggling also under pep with peak messi vs teams like inter and chelsea, while they got past chelsea 2009 with alot of luck, they couldnt vs inter, then CL 2011, there wasnt any strong defensive team on the way and it was easy, 2012 chelsea, since that, atletico 2 times exists, juve, now roma, 2015, no strong defensive teams on the way to final, then 1 match vs juve, different story then 2 matches, also barca was in top form, its unrealistic to expect it every season, so when they are not on top form, they are out, and you cant compare matches in la liga and CL, its completely different story, also matches in group and K.O. stages, when you are in the group, you can lose vs top team, but you will get past group by wining against low teams, in CL k.o. stages its now or never, and barca crumble under that pressure and are inferior to strong defensive teams, now they doesnt even need to be defensive, they need to run and beat barca players, its enough

 

[Meatball]

There was possibly no other way you could’ve proved my point better than you just did. Shitty tabloid gossip that was solely based on her not going to Russia for the first game and didn’t update her Instagram for some weeks.

Gossip or not how can you tell. Pls read it first pls or ignore me and don't reply, I don't like your tone.
Give me a break. I'm so down now so not in the mood to jack off back and forth here with you.

 

[MessiCam]

Put Caballero in front of the goal and see if your awesome midfield can win you trophies. Team balance throughout every position is the most important I think.

Croatia's performance only proved that this Argentine team under Sampaoli have no hope

Easier said than done when Barcelona have 4 players tactically conditioning the team. 2 of them midfielders and the other 2 forwards...

 

[BBZ8800]

Big teams haven't figured us out, the teams that knocked us out recently are Juventus, Atletico and Roma. We have played Juve 5 times recently, 2 wins, 2 draws and 1 defeat which is pretty good against one of the 4 or 5 best teams in Europe. Real have also played them 5 times in that period and have 2 wins, 1 draw and 2 defeats so pretty similar but our record is slightly better.

We beat Atletico regularly and Messi has scored against them more than any other player, they haven't figured us out. But if you play one of the best teams in Europe as often as we play Atletico then you are going to lose once in a while and that's what happened in the Champions League. Our record against them in Europe is 1 win, 1 draw and 2 defeats but domestically then haven't beaten us in about 20 attempts.

The Roma game was pure complacency,we thought it was won and didn't prepare properly, I have no doubt that if we had that game again we would beat them.

So aside from those 3 teams, how have the best in Europe figured us out? They haven't, we are missing a few details but Messi is not the problem at all. Our midfield offers no creativity and can't control the game, which means Messi has to go back and pick up the ball away from the penalty area, if we can fix that problem then I think we become legitimate contender for the Champions League again.

It was replied a lot of times::
If we'll play Atletico in La Liga or CDR, we'll probably win in 8-9 times out of 10.
If we'll play them in a CL we'll lose every time, usually even without scoring a goal, especially in an away match.

Some of you seem as if you don't want to accept that thing how:
Barca is good in La liga where there is no pressure of being knocked out the same night out of competition. (Look at Messi's face yesterday before a match. Is he that nervous against Getafe and in CDR matches, lol?)
Because of that, our players are relaxed since they know that even if they'll lose, they will win the next few matches and fix that defeat in La liga.
It seems that both Barca and Messi are fine with that sort of "lower pressure" and we play well and freely in these circumstances.

But when we face the same team in a CL, we turn into a scared team and they play with 120%.

It happened way too often that we win 5 times in a row against AM in La liga and CDR only to be heavily defeated and being invisible and without any ideas in a CL.

The same about Juve.
Fine, we won in that final.
After that we played 0:3 and 0:0, Messi has been easily neutralized and we didn't score any goals.
After that, we won in CL group stage (lol) where stakes are again lower. Guess what? we played relaxed and freely then.

So, please, realize that Barca and Messi have problems with big CL knockout rounds matches.
While we are safe and in a comfort zone in LA liga, Cdr and group stage of a CL.

Our last 6 years, 5 CL defeats:
Bayern 0:4, 0:3
Atletico 1:1, 0:1
Atletico 2:1 (2 goals scored after AM's red card), 0:2
(Psg 0:4)
Juventus 0:3, 0:0
Roma 4:1 (own goals), 0:3
** Now I see, in our last 6 years in CL's defeats, out of 10 matches, we didn't score a single goal in 7 matches.
We scored goals against Roma at home.
And 2 goals against AM at home, AFTER a red card.
And 1 against AM in 2014.
We were clueless and neutralized during 11 vs 11.
So, to some extent, in our last 5 CL's exits, we haven't scored in 8 out of 10 matches.

That says something about whether we are figured out any Messi being neutralized by big teams.

More or less, in ANY single of these matches (except Roma 4:1), Messi was easily neutralized and then our teams sucked and lacked ideas since we rely mostly on him.

This is not attack on Messi.
More like a post: Messi is older. He can't do wonders in every match anymore.
We need 2-3 other players to take courage and leadership and to step up.

Our midfield offers no creativity and can't control the game, which means Messi has to go back and pick up the ball away from the penalty area, if we can fix that problem then I think we become legitimate contender for the Champions League again.

I see, this will be a new: we need more technical midfielders to control the game.
On the other hand, maybe we are losing against AM, Juve, Roma and similar because we can't do shit all around the pitch in getting the ball back since we have too light players?
3 attackers are not defending.
2 out of 3 midfielders were physically weak, slow and often tired.
Maybe Thiago alone won't solve anything, as long as 5 players are barely defending, pressing and running.
A few nice passes from a new midfielder won't turn Messi/Luis/Dembele into better defenders on a CL level against thugs.

It is not that simple.

 

[MTL_Barca]

Since our game is also based on Messipendencia, imo, (big) teams and opponents have figured out how to neutralize Messi (which we can see in CL matches and in NT matches) and then, if a whole team is built ONLY around Messi, the team is in big problems when Messi is neutralized.

Ok, I know, Barca is stronger than Argentina, but still, we do have some of these similar problems when Messi is either not in the mood or when he is heavily marked.

One more thing, a lot of guys here don't think that there is any difference if you are marked by a 170cm guy like Iniesta/Denis or buy some thugish guys.
For example, yesterday Messi was man marked, closed down, tackled and physically pushed and fouled over and over by:
Cf Mandzukic 191 cm
Rw Perisic 187 cm
Lw Rebic 185 cm

Cm Rakitic 184 cm
Cdm Borozovic 181 cm

Lb Strinic 185 cm
Cb1 Lovren 188 cm
Cb2 Vida 184 cm
Rb Vrsaljko 181 cm

The only guy in a team shorter than 180 cm was Modric with 172 cm.

There are some things which can't be measured in stats, like that part of closing down, making a physical pressure with larger body, fouls and body touches by stronger/taller players compared to Iniesta/Thiago/Xavi etc.
** I am not saying that we should play like Stoke, but still, our fans want to get rid of the only stronger guy in our team, Rakitic, to weaken our team even more physically for Arthur or Thiago.

Anyway, this is how Messi was easily closed down and neutralized by stronger/faster players:
And then, when an opponent (CL teams and NT teams) man mark Messi with 2-3 players all the time, and when he is tackled as soon as possible whenever he gets the ball, and when he is physically pushed all the time, then Messi is out.
And then his teammates need to do something.
Reagrading Barca, if we'll rely only on the current, older Messi, we will be easily neutralized in a CL by any thuggish team.
Oh wait, that is happening every year in a CL, right? Atletico's thugs in midfield, Atletico's thugs in midfield, Juve's thugs in midfield, Roma's thugs in midfield.

So, a short video from yesterday about Messi vs physically dominant opponents and how a team (Argentina and Barca) needs a plan B when Messi is neutralized by experienced and physically stronger opponents:
(Btw, our guy, Rakitic, whom we want to get rid off, for some lighter and technical players, was doing a very good job in neutralizing the best player in the world, Messi):
** Btw, he is tackled after 1-2 seconds by 1-2 players all the time, and 2 players are closing down heavily on him every time.

Idk if you even have to call it plan B, i mean it would be plan B but only because plan A is "pass to Messi and wait".

Neutralizing Messi shouldn't cripple the complete team to a point where there is no chance of a successful attack, a team like Argentina (and Barca) should be able to do something with the other at least 2-3 offensiv players around him and some good midfielders but Sampaoli decided to play Kun-Messi with 9 scrubs around them that couldn't even build up a proper attack if their life depended on it.

Messi wasn't doing enough but that Argentina was actually painful to watch. CB to CB to Caballero who blindly shoots the ball in the sky was their plan B Really disappointed with Sampaoli. You could probably build a team that would trash the team from yesterday out of the players he left out of the squad entirely. Imagine getting dropped for Enzo Perez lol, that's Valverde subbing on Gomes first on WC level.

 

[Messi983]

Don't care about the WC, at least he should get some good rest before the next season.

Barça>>>>>>>Argentina
club football >>>>>>>>> NT football

 

[vlad]

Don't care about the WC, at least he should get some good rest before the next season.

Barça>>>>>>>Argentina
club football >>>>>>>>> NT football

Correct me if im wrong, but didnt messi said he would give every club trophy for WC trophy with argentina?


For us barcs fans, doesnt matter if arg goes out, but for messi? He cant just switch off and focus on club career, lack of success with NT will haunt him, be sure, and he isnt mentally strongest person, bad combination

 

[ronniecro]

it's ridiculous how the things have changed,everywhere and from everyone i'm hearing nothing but insulting,mocking,disparging and hate comments towards leo,it's like no one even takes him as a great player except us here.

 

[Messi983]

Correct me if im wrong, but didnt messi said he would give every club trophy for WC trophy with argentina?


For us barcs fans, doesnt matter if arg goes out, but for messi? He cant just switch off and focus on club career, lack of success with NT will haunt him, be sure, and he isnt mentally strongest person, bad combination

Don't know if he said that but it's obvious Messi cares about his NT. I don't. If he'll have a week or two more of vacations to rest and clear his mind then this will be good for Barça next season, that's all I'm interested in. I don't think he's mentally as weak as people believe and so far in his career he has shown he can switch off between the club and NT so I think he'll come back even stronger after another (very likely though it's not totally over yet) WC disappointment. I think he'll also be less affected now than he was after losing WC final in 2014 (and then Copa America finals in next two years) because he'll just admit he and his team were just not good enough.

He deserves his fair share of critics for his WC performances so far but people mocking him are stupid. They are forgetting Argentina wouldn't even see Russia without him.

 

[Rory]

Dybala and Higuaín must start together. They’re the only two players who play top level club football together.

 

[pregra]

At this point it doesn't matter who starts, what formation they play etc. This Argentina team is done. Need a complete overhaul.

 

[Meatball]

Dybala and Higuaín must start together. They’re the only two players who play top level club football together.

And Banega, too .... not Enzo Perez of mighty River Plate

 

[MessiCam]

I see, this will be a new: we need more technical midfielders to control the game.
On the other hand, maybe we are losing against AM, Juve, Roma and similar because we can't do shit all around the pitch in getting the ball back since we have too light players?
3 attackers are not defending.
2 out of 3 midfielders were physically weak, slow and often tired.
Maybe Thiago alone won't solve anything, as long as 5 players are barely defending, pressing and running.
A few nice passes from a new midfielder won't turn Messi/Luis/Dembele into better defenders on a CL level against thugs.

It is not that simple.

You repeat this ad nauseam but fail to include that the very Rakitic (15/16 - 16/17 - 17/18) was part of the midfield that failed so horribly in the Champions League for you as well as Gomes (16/17 - PSG pummeled him). So your theory is not working either... This past season was probably the worst Barcelona has looked in the Champions League in many, many years. Scored only 17 goals of which 5 were own goals. 6 of the other 12 were scored by the very player you're criticising while the physically and mentally strong, tough willed striker which you say needs to play in front of Messi has contributed a grand total of 4 goals in the last 2 campaigns.

 

[Laplacian]

I know exactly what she did to him and I won't say it here.

Gave him a world class blowjob I bet. Messi to score 5 against Nigeria!

 

[Devils]

Shit is sad man. Don't even care about what happens to Argentina anymore, just hope Leo is able to recover and move on from this.