10 - Lionel Messi - v5

[Devils]

He was fired because someone had to take the fall for the comments made this past week.

Getting rid of a higher level exec like the CEO is a big board decision and draws a lot of criticism and attention to the club.

Headlines like "Barca CEO fired after questioning Messi renewal" is terrible PR for the club and Messi.

But getting rid of a lower level exec who can easily be replaced like Gratacos is simple, shows board support for Messi and sends out a message to the rest of the people at FCB to shut their mouth to the media.

 

[Horatio]

Headlines like "Barca CEO fired after questioning Messi renewal" is terrible PR for the club and Messi.

That doesn't take away that this is still the worst of PR. Especially combined with recent events.
High-level or low-level executive, people still read this as 'omg, look at how much of a dictator Messi is'.

 

[FlaFCB]

The ideal would be these guys are instructed before answering the press. It's a bit appalling they're so bad at dealing with it. Even more as this is not the 1st time, or the 2nd.

 

[God Serena]

Bad PR or not we've already got a PR nightmare on our hands when our own executives are making comments about Messi that they read on Real Madrid's reddit page.

 

[Blaugrana Man]

This board is just unbelievable. They are tearing this club apart, either through gross incompetence or some clandestine agenda.

Absolutely shameful.

 

[FlaFCB]

^
I agree, he shouldn't have been fired solely for his comments. And honestly, I don't think that's the only cause. They probably wanted him out already. Or even better: he got loose with his comments BECAUSE he knew would get kicked out soon anyway. That would make more sense to me.

He's still connected to the club, will work with la masia 360.

His comments are making a lot of trolls madridistas and the madrid press to have a lot of fun at Messi's expense. You can say no one should care about that, but I do... A Barça executive enabling those damn fools is ridiculous.

 

[Barcilliant]

Why don't these guys just shut their mouths?

 

[snowy]

According to Fernando Polo (MD) Messi's entourage are surprised about Pere Gratacos's "Firing"

and they even got calls from people asking if Messi had anything to do with him getting the axe.

Don't let the hockey mask fool ya! Jason's a football fan and

... a cool-eh

 

[serghei]

my 2 cents:
if whatshisface really was fired/demoted/punished because of those exact words, then this is worrisome. As long as his opinion is based on a certain objectivenes and whichever criticism he offers is purely fact related and not ad hominem, having a person who is commited enough to speak his mind even if he knows the vast majority will think differently or even antagonize him for it, is incredibly valuable, not only for barca, but for any institution really. To punish this guy for what basically amounts to "commiting blasphemy" is really something i would have expected somewhere around the vicinity of ronaldo, not us.

And on the debate of what the guy said: For me there is a clear distinction between talent/skill/magic and playing level. The former is attached to the individual player and apart from the improvements he makes for himself by training, learning, etc basically constant (although it would make for an interesting debate whether it makes a difference for messi if he plays and trains for 10 years with an iniesta or let's say a hleb. geniuses tend to inspire each other after all). In the case of messi, his talent is of course ridiculously high.

Playing level however is something else, for me that's actual goals scored, assists given, dribbles made and all the other stuff found in the castrol index, performance under stress, clutch moments, impacts on a match etc. in short how "good" a player has been during a game, a season or competition or his career. And if the barca guy had this in mind when he said messi wouldn't be as good, then that is objectively true and not insulting at all. Of course his overall performance will be better when he plays at barca with xavi and iniesta than when he plays at stoke. in fact, saying the opposite, that with messi the result is the same, regardless if you put xavi or iniesta beside him or johnny slowfeet, would be disrespectful to xavi and iniesta. of course they make him play better.

Some people make it sound as if messi's level of play is like a natural constant. if that were the case, he'd be world champion right now, sorry for the polemics.

Agreed man. This is how it works here, regarding Messi, you can't even have an objective discussion about him, without other people hyperbolizing anything to do with him and crediting him with supernatural abilities. People are realliy comparing Messi with some sort of a god who doesn't depend on anyone to win games, he just does that on his own, no matter the rest.

What the guy said was not a problem at all. And I've read that MD has an article in which they mentioned that what Gratacos said in that interview is in the same register with what Messi himself said in november. Which is "Estoy en el mejor equipo del mundo y no depende de un jugador". That is the exact same point Grataco brought up, that the team is more than just Messi, while also mentioning Messi is the best. Anyway this whole scandal is useless and the decision of the club is dumb and over the top, as if to protect a player who's egotistical and spoiled, and likely to get pissed off at anyone who says he is not a god. That is Ibra and Ronaldo, not Messi.

 

[FlaFCB]

my 2 cents:
Playing level however is something else, for me that's actual goals scored, assists given, dribbles made and all the other stuff found in the castrol index, performance under stress, clutch moments, impacts on a match etc. in short how "good" a player has been during a game, a season or competition or his career. And if the barca guy had this in mind when he said messi wouldn't be as good, then that is objectively true and not insulting at all. Of course his overall performance will be better when he plays at barca with xavi and iniesta than when he plays at stoke. in fact, saying the opposite, that with messi the result is the same, regardless if you put xavi or iniesta beside him or johnny slowfeet, would be disrespectful to xavi and iniesta. of course they make him play better.

This isn't true, and not only to Messi. Proof of that is he has similar numbers with Argentina individually. Messi maybe wouldn't be as successful without them, but his individual playing level isn't different. As also both Xavi's and Iniesta's levels were the same when they weren't playing with Messi. A player quality exists independent of their teammates. Team play and individual quality can actually be measured apart from each other.

 

[serghei]

This isn't true, and not only to Messi. Proof of that is he has similar numbers with Argentina individually. Messi maybe wouldn't be as successful without them, but his individual playing level isn't different. As also both Xavi's and Iniesta's levels were the same when they weren't playing with Messi. A player quality exists independent of their teammates. Team play and individual quality can actually be measured apart from each other.

Messi's individual level isn't different, but only Messi's individual level wasn't, isn't, and won't be enough for a team to win games against strong opponents. Simple as that. Messi for Argentina is the same brilliant player in terms of ability as Messi for Barcelona, but he has less opportunities to show that ability because he is surrounded by weaker players that will not give him that opportunity as often as the Barca players do. The teammates that one player has, or doesn't have, are extremely important in winning titles in football.

In other words, ability remains the same, but the performance (so not the ability per se, but the exertion of that ability) is influenced by his teammates. It's his teammates that may or may not activate Messi often enough, in order to make full use of that ability in a game of football.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

Oh yes, your idea that Messi can't ever win games solo, even for Argentina.

Good luck arguing that other than with "but but there are 21 other players on the pitch so ITS MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE DUH". Which I'm sure you think is a smart and nuanced argument...

Then again, Messi can thank his teammates for his freekick goalscoring streak...

 

[serghei]

Oh yes, your idea that Messi can't ever win games solo, even for Argentina.

Good luck arguing that other than with "but but there are 21 other players on the pitch so ITS MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE DUH". Which I'm sure you think is a smart and nuanced argument...

Then again, Messi can thank his teammates for his freekick goalscoring streak...

Carry on with your dogmatic belief that Messi is god, couldn't care less. I've said what I wanted to say.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

Yes. Thinking Messi has, and will win games on his own is the pinnacle of fanboyism to you. Gotcha. I'm glad it's in the open though, might make people think twice every time you almost seem to make sense.

 

[Iarwain]

I just checked in so maybe I didn't catch the whole context of this story but:

"Gratacós: Messi would not be the player he is without Iniesta and Neymar"

this comment does stink of something deeper involved and maybe even malicious. There's absolutely no reason for a club official to spout such bullshit unprovoked in public. No reason whatsoever.